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Campaign against alleged voter fraud fuels political tempest

 
 
Thomas
 
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Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 11:57 am
squinney wrote:
Thomas - Come on. Your a brilliant guy. The point is there is NO PROOF because they DO hold the information related to elections and voter suppression being alleged and there has been NO PROOF of voter fraud to support their side which is calling for MORE suppression of votes as demonstrated by the now fired attorneys stating that they were being pushed to prosecute for voter fraud in cases that had no merit.

Yes. And because they had no merit -- because there is no good evidence that voter fraud is a problem in practice -- I agree with you that the Republican obsession with it is horseshît. Where is our disagreement?
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mysteryman
 
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Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 01:46 pm
Squinney said...

Quote:
Someone a week or so ago pointed out in an article that I read that the whole fair and balanced media approach is a major disservice to the public. Media now feels obliged to state what each side is saying and leave it at that. There's no right or wrong, no facts versus spin, no finding of the truth. Just typing out what each side says, or what their take on it is, doesn't give us the truth and leaves each new development open to interpretation as if whatever everyones individual interpretation is has merit.


Thats funny,because when I took some journalism classes in school,that is exactly what the class taught.

Journalists are supposed to report the "who,what,when,where,how and why" of a story or event,nothing more.

They are not supposed to tell you what to think or to interject their own beliefs into a story.
They are supposed to report the facts,nothing more.

So,now people are complaining that journalists are doing just that?
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squinney
 
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Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 03:09 pm
The disagreement is in this earleir statement: (Emphasis mine)

Thomas wrote:
That's why I asked for evidence from both sides. While I'm sure that there are both fraudulent voters and frustrated legitimate voters, I don't see much reason to think that either is a major problem in practice. The federal government doesn't hold all the data about elections, so evidence should be there even if Bush/Cheney withhold all the data they have.


My reading of that was that you think both sides have equal weight in their complaints. As Dys stated on the previous page, there isn't widespread proof of voter fraud, yet that seems to have caught on through the media as a legitimate complaint. It isn't. It has been hyped up in order to get passage of voter ID laws, purge voter rolls, etc.

Suppression of votes and manipulation of the count IS a problem and the proof you request is in the DOJ Civil Rights office, DOJ firing of US attorneys that wouldn't prosecute non-existant fraud cases, Ohio 2004, Ney, Hearn, Dyke, the Republican run voting machine companies, and on and on. The proof is just starting to come together.

So, If I read your previous comment correctly, our disagreement is whether there is much reason to think that either is a major problem in practice, and in stating it as if both complaints are equal.

Maybe I didn't read it right?
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Thomas
 
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Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 03:22 pm
squinney wrote:
My reading of that was that you think both sides have equal weight in their complaints.

That's not what I think. I think I don't know what the relative weight of either complaint is -- because I don't have enough evidence from either side to know.

Contrast this with the ample evidence about voting machines that are easily hackable, poorly tested before use, and not publically documented. In my opinion, they are a much better reason to worry about America's democracy.
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squinney
 
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Reply Sun 1 Jul, 2007 04:32 pm
Then I apologize for the misunderstanding. We appear to be on the same page regarding voting machines. In re-reading from page one, I take it the evidence you request is in relationship to the voter ID requirement suppressing votes, rather than all of the other forms of suppression taking place.

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll have data on Voter ID suppression until after the 2008 election which is when most of the state passed ID laws will be in affect.
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