Hague Quality Water.................Any experience with?

I have seen them advertised in the trade magazines over the years, but I have never seen their equipment in the field.

What "bold claims" did the salesman present to you?

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Hague makes proprietary products and have made attempts to develop systems so that they are customizable for particular water problems.

They are listed as a single tank, electronic demand system placed in a stylish tank with a matching brine tank. The conditioning tank uses a three separate chambers. The bottom has resins in a packed bed with a small amount of KDF media listed as a bacterialstatic.

The resins are packed making it very efficient in hardness removal in terms of number of grains removed per pound of salt.

There are a few shortcomings to Hague in some water applications so it depends on what your water conditions are. What tests did the sales rep conduct and what were they results? Do you have odor problems, high iron?

I am wondering too what you consider "bold".

Andy Christensen

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Hague has been around for a long time. Don't they make the Waterboss... I think so. They are very proprietary and it's impossible to find someone other than the local dealer to work on them. They are difficult to work on so they are not DIYer friendly. They should not be used on well water IMO.

You would do much better with a softener from an independent internet or local dealer using a Clack WS-1 control valve. Especially if you would want to repair your control valve yourself when needed rather than calling a local dealer for service at wahtever they decide to charge for it and the parts. At whatever time during whatever weekday they can show up or reschedule it to...

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Gary Slusser wrote:

They are very proprietary and it's impossible to find someone other than the local dealer to work on them. They are difficult to work on so they are not DIYer friendly.

We have a Hague dealer here who is very professional and well trained in the maintenance and repair of their products. They serviced a neighbor's Hague softener and did not seem to have any difficulty in doing the job. When you have the tools and the training things are not so difficult. Can someone with no training and the incorrect tools do the same as easily? I wouldn't expect them to be able to.

My neighbor is happy with his Hague and it is performing reliably. Aside from the nice looks it does not seem to offer any particular advantage over its competition in his installation. Certainly no bold advantage. We are on the same water and both our water is soft :wink: .

I'd look at all my options and do more research before deciding on a brand.

Gary Slusser wrote:

Especially if you would want to repair your control valve yourself when needed rather than calling a local dealer for service at whatever(sp) they decide to charge for it and the parts.

With a local service company standing right in front of you eye to eye, you always have the option of refusing the repair if you feel that your are not being charged fairly.

Gary Slusser wrote:

At whatever time during whatever weekday they can show up or reschedule it to...

In the worst circumstance probably days faster than waiting for UPS or FedEx to deliver the right, or maybe the wrong, part(s) from an unknown drop-shipper.

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Bold is beautiful
I've had several water softeners and the Hague system I have for city water is BOLDly Better.

Single vessel tank design which all Fleck Cleck ....ck valves use have many drawbacks to the design compared to the Hague tank.

Single vessel tanks soften the water to a point. Once you exceed the flow rate of about 5-7 GPM hard water bleeds through. If you need to use lots of water at the same time (run your dishwasher, washing machine and take a shower) you'll notice your dishes don't come out so clean and hard water spots will show on the shower doors.

The packed resin bed on the Hague system will make 0 Grains of hardness. I've had my system up to 13 GPM and tested it for hardness. I found none. Since I've had my system I've got no more hard water problems. With the other two softeners I still got hard water spots during peak usage.

I live in the city and the water is chlorinated. By removing the chlorine my skin feels much better and my wife's sensitive skin feels much better to her.

The service from our dealer has always been prompt and fair. I've learned my lesson on quality before. The Hague system that I got has a 25 year warranty on the media and major components. It covers 10 years for the valve and other misc. parts.

My internet searches for softeners in the past all seemed to have 1-5 year warrantys and a phone number for parts.

Some things you do yourself and some things you leave to a trained service person. I don't want to try to repair my transmission on my car no do I have the time to work on a water softener valve.

I'm busy improving my home by painting, hammering and cauking. The stuff that I don't need a week of schooling to figure out.

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Re: Bold is beautiful

Tha4onG wrote:

Some things you do yourself and some things you leave to a trained service person.
I don't want to try to repair my transmission on my car no do I have the time to work on a water softener valve.

I'm busy improving my home by painting, hammering and caulking. The stuff that I don't need a week of schooling to figure out.

Well said.

Most of my clients are like you. I recommend ECOWATER to folks such as yourself.
ECOWATER offers a lifetime warranty, professional installation and service.
For those of you that have Hague available in your area it sounds like it's worth a look.

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Re: Bold is beautiful

Tha4onG wrote:

I've had several water softeners and the Hague system I have for city water is BOLDly Better.

First hand experience is hard to beat and valuable information. Thanks.

Tha4onG wrote:

Single vessel tank design which all Fleck Cleck ....ck valves use have many drawbacks to the design compared to the Hague tank.

Single vessel tanks soften the water to a point. Once you exceed the flow rate of about 5-7 GPM hard water bleeds through. If you need to use lots of water at the same time (run your dishwasher, washing machine and take a shower) you'll notice your dishes don't come out so clean and hard water spots will show on the shower doors.

The packed resin bed on the Hague system will make 0 Grains of hardness. I've had my system up to 13 GPM and tested it for hardness. I found none. Since I've had my system I've got no more hard water problems. With the other two softeners I still got hard water spots during peak usage.

What you are describing is not a benefit of the Hague design but the result of less than knowledgable people selling and installing undersized (for the SFR of the plumbing) softeners and (unfortunately for the buyer) is a common occurence. Hardness "leaking through" is not the result of a "single resin tank design".

Tha4onG wrote:

I live in the city and the water is chlorinated. By removing the chlorine my skin feels much better and my wife's sensitive skin feels much better to her.

There are those who favor using multiple medias in the resin tank and those who don't. If that is working for you then it is the right solution. There are other ways to remove chlorine that are just as effective.

Tha4onG wrote:

The service from our dealer has always been prompt and fair. I've learned my lesson on quality before. The Hague system that I got has a 25 year warranty on the media and major components. It covers 10 years for the valve and other misc. parts.

The value of any warranty is the reliability of the dealer who enforces it. You, and my neighbor, both have excellent Hague dealers.

Tha4onG wrote:

My internet searches for softeners in the past all seemed to have 1-5 year warrantys and a phone number for parts.

More modestly priced softeners have lesser warranties but doesn't make them lesser products. There are dealers for lower priced softeners that are just as reliable and stock parts like your Hague dealer and there are dealers that are worse. That needs to be investigated before you buy anything.

Tha4onG wrote:

Some things you do yourself and some things you leave to a trained service person. I don't want to try to repair my transmission on my car no do I have the time to work on a water softener valve.

Absolutely agree and that is a choice for the customer to make and they should never be criticized for choosing a high level of service instead of the cheapest price and less or no service.

There is a reason that companies like Hague, Culligan, Kinetico, and the like have been around so long. They offer a premium product that costs more and to many it is worth the higher cost. That is especially appealing when that cost is spread out over 10-15-20 years of trouble free service.

These companies have built a loyal following over decades and if you look around the DIY forums there are very few who post complaining about their (Culligan, Kinetico, Hauge, etc) branded softeners because they work and continue to do so.

When shopping for water treatment I advocate investigating all your options and available brands... well, not electronic and magnetic softeners Laughing

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Any warranty, regardless of it's length and coverage, is charged for at the time of the purchase of the item/product/service. With most things, paying for something long before you need it is not smart financially.

Lifetime and 25 etc. year warranties... are sucker bait for the uninformed, and a means for some that fell prey to them to defend their decision.

Buying from a local dealer is all but required IF you want to have someone other than yourself fix the thing when it needs fixin'. Then you pay whatever amount they will charge you for their service call and labor/time. justalurker goes on about finding a dealer that will include their labor in the warranty... I wish you luck with that and if you do find one offering that, he may not be in business long but remember, he charged you for that in the purchase price of the softener. And you paid for it whether you use his service or not.

Also, it takes about an hour to learn all there is to know about a softener, no matter what control valve is on it, what resin is used in it or, the brand name on it if any.

All softeners do the same job of removing hardness, iron, manganese etc. in the same way; the resin attracts those ions and removes them from the water. All softeners are made up of the same components; a control valve, resin, a resin/mineral tank, distributor tube and bottom basket and a salt tank, period. The most important part is the control valve. It has all the moving parts in it. IMO the best control valve is the Clack WS-1. It has the fewest parts, moving or otherwise, of any control valve on the market. Many companies that have used Fleck control valves on their equipment for decades are now using the Clack WS-1 instead. The same for many independent dealers.

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DIY install and DIY service ..... are sucker bait for the uninformed.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Any warranty, regardless of it's length and coverage, is charged for at the time of the purchase of the item/product/service. With most things, paying for something long before you need it is not smart financially.

Maybe not for you but not necessarily for EVERYONE. I believe it is the right of the customer to determine what they want and whether they are willing to pay for it.

Gary Slusser wrote:

Lifetime and 25 etc. year warranties... are sucker bait for the uninformed, and a means for some that fell prey to them to defend their decision.

And all those Hague and Kinetico and other premium brand softener owners who don't post on DIY forums trying to get their broken softeners fixed are wrong for buying what they did and enjoying long term reliable service from those products?

Gary Slusser wrote:

Buying from a local dealer is all but required IF you want to have someone other than yourself fix the thing when it needs fixin'. Then you pay whatever amount they will charge you for their service call and labor/time.

And paying for what you want and getting it is a bad decision ...?

Gary Slusser wrote:

justalurker goes on about finding a dealer that will include their labor in the warranty... I wish you luck with that and if you do find one offering that, he may not be in business long but remember, he charged you for that in the purchase price of the softener. And you paid for it whether you use his service or not.

No luck required only judicous shopping and patience. That some water treatment sellers don't have the ethics to stand behind what they sell is one of the blights on that industry. That anyone can contact a regional drop-shipping distributer and "become" a water treatment seller (in absentia) further casts a shadow over that industry.

If you sell and install then, using Gary's logic(?), the charges for labor are hidden in the sale price. If the customer is paying for labor then the seller should warranty labor, and some do.

Again, paying for what you want and getting it is a bad decision ...?

I want to bring this next statement to Gary's attention so he doesn't miss it..

If you are selling over the internet or over the phone then you shouldn't be hiding any charges in the price for install or labor and you shouldn't offer a labor warranty. As I stated in a previous post, if you charge less and give the customer less, that's OK, as long as the customer is aware of what they are not getting for that low price.

I don't expect any long distance seller of anything to provide me on-site, parts and labor warranty UNLESS that was included at time of sale.

Gary Slusser wrote:

Also, it takes about an hour to learn all there is to know about a softener, no matter what control valve is on it, what resin is used in it or, the brand name on it if any.

A "professional" in about an hour...

Gary Slusser wrote:

All softeners do the same job of removing hardness, iron, manganese etc. in the same way; the resin attracts those ions and removes them from the water. All softeners are made up of the same components; a control valve, resin, a resin/mineral tank, distributor tube and bottom basket and a salt tank, period.

And a Hyundai and a Ferrari are both cars... :wink:

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In response to Tha4onG, there a couple of points you may have not have been aware. The packed bed means there is no freeboard or a volume of water above the resin bed and below the valve. More on this later.

Also the bed is Vibrapacked. This means as the bed is being loaded the tanks are vibrated to get the resins packed very tightly. This gets the maximum amount of resins in a limited sized container and that is why Hague can make a claim of one of the most efficient softeners in removing hardness. They have been tested (WQA) at over 5000 grains per pound of salt. Many other softeners range around 3000 grains or less. California, I believe, requires 4000.

Another positive point is that Hague uses a fine mesh resin. These resin beads are even tinier than standard mesh resins and therefore allow more surface area for better hardness removal.

The warranty is ten years on valve parts. That is five years at a 100% and five years prorated deducting 20% per year. Not the best on the market but still pretty good. I am not sure on labor.

Due to its multi-chamber construction the unit can be modified for specific water conditions. Depending on iron content, sulfur and hardness the upper chambers can contain different media.

There is also KDF at the bottom. This is a powerful media that can handle limited iron, hydrogen sulfide and acts as a bacterialstatic.

Some of the problems that I have come across with Hague is attempts to handle high iron. Because the beds are packed they have a difficult time ridding the iron which accumulates and eventually fowls the resin. The lack of freeboard (the body of water above the resin that allows the resin to lift on backwash) inhibits the resins to release iron as well as other softeners.

The KDF will become exhausted and is nearly impossible to replace without high expense. Carbon, when placed in the top tanks for dechlorination and odor control will also need to be replaced. The sulfur variation can handle sulfur for limited time and at low levels. My experience shows not to use this at 3ppm or more of sulfur. Others may have had better success.

Hague does make a good unit and is extremely efficient at removing hardness. They are not cheap and can be a valuable investment but, like all systems, limitations are best to be understood.

Andy Christensen, CWS

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Hague Quality Water
Sorry for not replying sooner. As for the bold claims.......
1. Hard water clogs your arteries, causes cancer.
2. You should Never chlorinate your water, EPA has stated chlorination causes cancer. Doesn't the EPA mandate what can and cannot be used in our drinking water systems?
3. Iron Bacteria cannot be tested for in a laboratory. Smell is the only way to test.
4. All "smelly" water is caused by Iron Bacteria.
5. Water filters in refrigerators make your water worse not better.
6. Hague doesn't have to rely on the hard sell. After I told him I was going to have to think about all this, !2 months same as cash....for today only!
7. Hague Quality Water supplies all the water purification for Coca Cola.
Attorney General of Pennsylvania looked into this and found this to be false.
8. Hague Quality Water provide purification systems for the local Children's Hospital, I haven't been able to confirm this in Ohio, but this seems to be a claim they make in several states and have been proven to be false.

I just wondered if anyone else had any info on this company.

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WOW!

Talk about breaking all the rules ... thank you for reporting them and posting what you have.

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Water
As for my water

Hague -- 40 grains of hardness, 1.5-2 ppm iron, PH - neutral, iron bacteria -- based on smell. Recommended Water Boss $3500.00

Peacock Water - local Kinetico dealer - 32 grains of hardness, PH - neutral, no sulfur, Chlorinate water (DIY), need new water softener. Recommended a Kinetico 2060 $2800.00 or a Fleck 9000 $2500.00

I agree that I need a new water softener, just don't think I should have to spend that kind of money. I have found the Fleck 9000 for $860.00 at several locations online. I an fully capable of the plumbing requirements, just trying to educate myself on water softeners. Any help will be appreciated.

I am going to have my water tested by a local lab. They said that they doubt that have iron bacteria based on my description but they will test for it regardless. They recommend chlorinating my well and lines for 24 hours.

Thanks,
Phil

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Your water is fairly hard. The iron issue needs further testing.

Do you see any slimy moss like growth in the toilet tank?
Do you smell rotten eggs in the cold water or just the hot water?

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H2O_MAN wrote:

Your water is fairly hard.

I love it when you talk like that, H2O_MAN.

Hold me.

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gustavratzenhofer wrote:

H2O_MAN wrote:
Your water is fairly hard.

I love it when you talk like that, H2O_MAN.

Hold me.

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Re: Water

Big Dog wrote:

As for my water

Hague -- 40 grains of hardness, 1.5-2 ppm iron, PH - neutral, iron bacteria -- based on smell.

Big Dog,

That's some nasty water you got there. Do your homework before you buy. Make sure you know what you're not getting by going the cheapest route and what you are getting by spending more.

My personal opinion, with your water I like the Kinetico. There are other solutions that will do nicely and you should look at all your options, but based on what you posted about hague... I'd stay away from them..

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Water
A little back ground -- 2nd owner of 160 year old farm house that is still using the original well. The foundation of the original open well still remains next to my well head. The water has a slight oder in both the hot and c old water. Sometimes stronger when the water has not been run in awhile. I have a Culligan Mark 89 Automatic Water Conditioner with Aqua Sensor. I use Salt pellets with iron out and mix "Iron Out" in gallon jug and pour into brine tank once a month. I have iron staining in the showers and toilet tanks, no slime. The anode rod was removed from the hot water tank. I was out of town for over a year and my sister was staying here while looking for a new home. She neglected to use salt in the softener and when I returned my water had a strong oder and a reddish orange tint to it. After 2 months home and the use of Iron Out and salt with iron out the water is better. Still a slight oder and red color occasionally. I am getting ready to "shock" the well and flush the water lines. I have been told that the resin cannot be changed in this Culligan unit as it is sealed. I am also going to change all the water lines to "Pex" and install a whole house tankless water heater soon. I'm trying to find the best combination of softener to use with an electric tankless water heater.

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Hague Quality Water.................Any experience with?

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