Instinctive anger at the wealthy and/or wealth contrasts

Oh, definitely.

It happened to me a LOT when I was in L.A. I worked in an extremely poor area, lots of crime and various serious problems, and lived in a completely different area. I'd go food shopping (for example) close to home after work and get disgusted at the people I saw. (The jewelry, the Botox, the nannies, the whole thing.) I never quite figured out whether it was justified or not. A certain kind of excess seems problematic in and of itself. But a huge diamond ring, an expensive haircut, is that the end of the world? Maybe the person I'm judging so harshly has given much of her money, or time, or both, to worthy causes.

Anyway, I've had that momentary "GRRR" moment many times.

Another thing this brings to mind:

Sozlet has a classmate with this mom that I instantly pegged as Not My Type. She always looks like she's about to go to the opera, or something. Full makeup, spike heels, silks and satins and super-expensive-looking clothes and a spill of expensively-tended hair in an expensive shade of blonde. I just couldn't imagine that someone who sported metallic gold eyeshadow at noon would be someone I'd find simpatico.

But she's a total sweetheart. Just a nice, down-to-earth, kind, patient, wonderful person. I haven't asked about her background, can't figure out how her way of presenting herself fits in (I'd guess she's from Texas or a southern state). Her personality is nothing like what I expected from her appearance, anyway.

This is interesting nimh.

But, I'm not clear on why you got angry?

Because the man was drunk?
Or they were arguing in the street?

Because they looked poor?

If the situation was reversed, and the poor couple where contently talking with each other, and the wealthy couple was having a drunken argument on the street, would you still have been mad at the younger couple?

If you say yes, why? Is it because the wealthy people aren't appreciating what they have, while the poor couple realize they have each other?

I'm sorry if I maybe just didn't read carefully enough, but I really don't understand.

Again, interesting topic.

Sometimes I get annoyed thinking about how a legal or business job can fetch a disproportionate income based on required intelligence/difficulty/education, but I can't say that I identify with the situation you describe in the least.

For one thing, you cannot really say that the young couple was rich...it really does not take much money to dress richly, and a lot of young people just like to look sharp when they are actually pretty poor.

Re: Instinctive anger at the wealthy and/or wealth contrasts

No. I got allergic reactions when rich people voiced arrogant, clueless prejudices against poor people. But that's different from what you described. I never got annoyed or angry with well-off people just for being well-off.

I believe that what you engaged in, was DISPLACEMENT, Nimh:

You were probably very angry at the Romanie couple for fighting and making you miserable with their miserable lives which you couldn't really be angry about because you won't allow yourself to be angry at people who are poor and/or suffering...........so you lifted your anger out of them and deposited it into that seemingly well-to-do couple against whom your anger was permitted its expression because they had everything and would therefor not be harmed by your negative emotions.

Ditto.

I don't think displacement is the deal. I do relate to what nimh has said, including his self observations, and have some of that going on in my head a lot of the time I'm out and about. I suppose I could work up some insight relative to what I've observed in life, but not right this minute. Just posting to say yer not alone.

Yeah, the displacement thing doesn't quite hit what I've felt.

It's something like, "it's not FAIR," or, "do you realize what a difference it would make in the life of the impoverished woman I was just counseling if she had the money you spent on that pointless bauble?"

Yep, that's it, soz.

It's the injustice.

Some people are born with money or poverty. Some people achieve them. It's a pity that some people have so little, but success isn't a sin. Neither is luck.

I meant to say...it's the perceived injustice. Of course we can't know what has actually gone on in their lives, but by appearances...it doesn't look fair.

Makes me think of a family of four that I know; three made something of themselves and the other one went the other way. He's always asking for handouts and crying "Poor Me"... but he's not really a Poor Me - he simply made different choices than his sibs. One day the mother asked the three if she should give Poor Me more $ in the will because he had less money. What a question. It's the same thing as giving one child more $ because they have more offspring. Not fair at all. But I digress.

Something led that arguing couple to that state, regardless of their initial circumstances. People who don't want to be in a certain condition don't stay there. And I'm not talking about Biafrans now, okay?

As far as what you were angry at, I couldn't begin to say. Neither couple would have made me mad, so I don't understand your anger. I find your post refreshing, however.

I'm not sure if you're serious, but there are many kinds of self-defeating behaviors...some of them due to emotions affecting our actions aside from just logic, others due to lack of perception of an issue, and others still due to recognizing how to get out of a cycle but not feeling willing or able to do what it takes to get out of that position. That doesn't mean they are happy being in that position.

Nimh, I think I understand your anger. You are someone who was raised by parents who were both politically and socially aware; who, I imagine, were activists. You, from the time you were tiny, were exposed to conversations about political and social problems. You are obviously a very compassionate person, from all the posts of yours I've read. You, in a way, were more than likely 'programmed' to experience that attitude, right or wrong.

I too have had, seeing someone with everything and the arrogance to go with it, the impulse to ask them how much they donate to charity. I've also met some very rich people who do more good that 100 middle class people could ever do.

I don't resent wealth--I do resent arrogant use of wealth and power to gain even more wealth and power. Now that I'm thinking of it, there are a few politicians I could name...

I could not write earlier, so I will elaborate on my previous "ditto"....

I still agree with the basic premise of displaced anger, it's very common ya know, and a very human trait. And no, I don't think it's purely because of the fact that you {Nimh} happen to be liberal minded...there probably is some correlation there, at least pertaining to this particular story....perhaps a smidgen, or a great deal...who knows. I like what Diane said and I agree, coming from her "programmed" doesn't sound so bad, but with me being me, I will go with...ingrained. Naturally, if we were to reverse the story, with myself in it, I would probably want to slap the drunk guy.

Pretty neat observation, regardless of the significance of the moment...being acutely perceptive has it's drawbacks at times...being a Virgo can be a pain huh.....these moments of introspection are the best, I hope you get a decent little buzz from the ensuing epiphany.

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Feel free to ignore the rest of this post...it's mostly a ramble anyway. I will use "poor" and "rich" for simplicity, as these terms are not wholly accurate.

I live in a very impoverished area, my county, and a few of the surrounding ones, are listed as being some of the poorest, per capita, in the entire nation. Even in my little town, which is a bedroom community...in essence a lily white suburb...has more than it's fair share of lower income familys. Being that we are so small, the haves and have-nots mingle on a daily basis, and let me tell ya..from someone in the middle, financially, ideologically and geographically {classic, east/west town division, my parents house is dead center, so I grew up in the neutral zone}...it sucks big time.

From the poorer sect there is one catch phrase I hear the most, every time someone that is well heeled gets a new car, adds on to their home, takes a "real" vacation, etc..."It must be nice."...I know that does not sound too bad, but there is a lot behind that phrase, and believe me, the sarcasm and resentment flows like lava when it is uttered. This tends to be the opening statement for a vicious attack, which quite often contains an allusion that something illegal is going on....it's a standing rule, that anyone who prospers is suspect of illicit activity.

This attitude comes from people that spend every spare {often not spare} dollar on booze, drugs, various forms of gambling...scratch off/lottery tickets...and all the other stupid things people tend to blow money on. This is not just what I perceive to happen either, this is what I see with my own eyes in my little micro-society. They consistently place themselves in financial disarray, then resent those who take the responsible route, and somehow in their minds, fully justify placing the blame on the responsible ones for their own situation.

Then on the other end of the spectrum, there are some that spew vile towards the less fortunate in ways that make me blush...blush being an understatement...my face turns red out of anger, even though I tend to share the same criticisms...which are accurate, but simply way too harsh, and often combined with an arrogant cocky attitude. They seem to hate the poor for simply being poor....all poor people, even the ones that do not live the life I described, and honestly put forth their best effort.

Ok, so what does this have to do with the original post, well I have over the years become a buffer of sorts, between these two factions, east/west rich/poor, so I deal with a lot of anger...real and displaced on a regular basis. I've become fairly good at defusing the situations that are born from these attitudes...but alas, they are plentiful. I said earlier that being the buffer...a go-between...sucks, but I've purposely put myself in this situation because I feel there is a need for it...and most of the time it is a rewarding experience...I get to fix things.

I should mention, all in all, it is a small portion of the poor that have the attitude and lifestyle I described earlier, same goes for the rich, but in both groups the ones I referred to, tend to be the vocal ones...and we all know how that goes.

ditto 2packs

Not to sound all "well, you've got to walk a mile in another mans moccasins" but I personally have a hard time with making blanket statements about rich and poor.

Nimh himself said at one point something like that he had enough to spulge each week, and that might not seem like a lot by American standards, but it was something were he was. (sorry if I butchered that)

I don't really know what American Standards are...they are so different if you ask each individual.

Do the poorest here have a lot compared to someone in Somolia? Yes.
Do our relatively well do do have it made compared to someone in the Unit Arab Emirates? No.

To lump the rich all into one catagory is as bad as lumping the poor into one bucket.

I've known people who are very well off, and live quite simply. They live well, but aren't flashy.

I've known people much poorer who want to make the appearance of having riches, and appear that way.

Right now, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people here who bought McMansions, and now the balloon payment is coming up, and their live style is going to change big time.

Ditto with people who live well, but have credit card debt up the wazoo, and have no investments, savings...it's all window dressing.

I've known poor who, no matter how you tried to "educate" them, who have it within their power to change, but Choose to remain poor.

Sometimes it isn't a choice, but sometimes it is.

I've had "poor" people directly ask me how to do something, listen, nod, understand and agree they could do something and say they are going to, but don't. I'm talking about times when there was no other immediate necessary need. Either through habit or God knows why, they don't do what is in their power.

I've know "poor" people who've worked hard and prospered, and others who have not.

On the other hand I've known rich people who are callous, wasteful, etc.

Unless I know more about the background of someone, I really can't have an opinion.

Oh wait...I'm back.

reading the title of this thread "instinctive anger"

Isn't that just coveting your neighbors goods?

No it isn't. Coveting is when you want your neighbor's goods for yourself. By contrast, nimh, sozobe, Eva and Diane (instinctively) want the goods of some neighbors in the hands of other neighbors. Although I don't feel their sentiment myself, I see it as entirely different from coveting.