To whom did Jesus pray?

When I was a kid I use to love toasting raisin bread. But it would resurrect itself disappointingly with holes, so I could not spread the peanut butter evenly.

Maybe Jesus fet the same way about spreading the gospels and the holy toast's raison d'etre?

real life wrote:

Cyracuz wrote:

Christianity wants you to believe in what is incomprehensible.

Interesting way of putting it. And not incorrect. (emphasis mine)

However, is something only true if you can understand it?

Actually, It is incorrect.

What many define as faith is in reality credulity.

Even the very definition of the words 'father' and 'son' implies separateness and inequality.

RL, was it possible for Jesus to have sinned?

I agree that many do so. I do not. Faith does not require complete understanding, only complete trust. Otherwise how would a child have faith?

neologist wrote:

. . . RL, was it possible for Jesus to have sinned?

Not sure how that relates to this.

Quote:

I agree that many do so. I do not. Faith does not require complete understanding, only complete trust. Otherwise how would a child have faith?

Isn't that cyracuz's problem (and mine) that it's just mindless to have that sort of a 'faith'.

The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Quote:

I agree that many do so. I do not. Faith does not require complete understanding, only complete trust. Otherwise how would a child have faith?

Isn't that cyracuz's problem (and mine) that it's just mindless to have that sort of a 'faith'.

A child's trust is based on experience and need. I can't envision a scenario where a child would intellectually test his trust. But faith is more mature and can be tested. In fact, it should be tested.

real life wrote:

neologist wrote:

. . . RL, was it possible for Jesus to have sinned?

Not sure how that relates to this.

It certainly relates to the difference between Jesus and his father. Were Jesus identical to his father, he could not sin. If he could not sin, what would be the point of his temptation?

A child's trust is based on experience and need.

I can't envision a scenario where a child would intellectually test his trust.

But faith is more mature and can be tested.

In fact, it should be tested.

Neo:

On a serious note, just want to say that what I've noticed you saying on the threads I really respect. I admire you for being able to see all the problems of christianity, and overcome them personally. Your faith is the sort I admire.

neologist wrote:

A child's trust is based on experience and need.

False, given a new born baby has no "experience".

neologist wrote:

I can't envision a scenario where a child would intellectually test his trust.

Then you have not heard of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, in both those cases many children do indeed "intellectually test" their trust.

neologist wrote:

But faith is more mature and can be tested.

You have in no way demonstrated faith is "more mature".

neologist wrote:

In fact, it should be tested.

Given you use the word "should" by what do you make this unsubstantiated claim?

Jesus, in providing Himself as our example, prayed. And so doing showed us how to pray.

Earlier

Real wrote:

Jesus, in providing Himself as our example, prayed. And so doing showed us how to pray.

This is silly. I've heard this argument before and I can't believe anyone would buy it.

Are we to believe that God is so petty, so small-minded, that he will only accept prayers offered in a prescribed manner? He is not interested in what is in a persons heart but in the method they pray to him? He cannot hear a persons appeal unless it is given in a proper manner?

And what happens to that person who does not pray in the prescribed manner? Will God ignore the persons supplication? Send them to Hell for not know the proper way to pray?

This is another of those cheap and nonsensical answers Christians give to one of the great contradictions of the Bible. Jesus was not God (as in pagan religions) but a Jewish man who prayed to a Jewish God. It's that simple.

xingu wrote:

Earlier

Real wrote:

Jesus, in providing Himself as our example, prayed. And so doing showed us how to pray.

This is silly. I've heard this argument before and I can't believe anyone would buy it.

Are we to believe that God is so petty, so small-minded, that he will only accept prayers offered in a prescribed manner? He is not interested in what is in a persons heart but in the method they pray to him? He cannot hear a persons appeal unless it is given in a proper manner?

And what happens to that person who does not pray in the prescribed manner? Will God ignore the persons supplication? Send them to Hell for not know the proper way to pray?

This is another of those cheap and nonsensical answers Christians give to one of the great contradictions of the Bible. Jesus was not God (as in pagan religions) but a Jewish man who prayed to a Jewish God. It's that simple.

You are correct in saying that Jesus is not God. But, aside from Real's misconception about the relationship between Jesus and Jehovah, he is correct about the nature of prayer.
Not nearly as petty and cynical as you would have us believe.
In what we commonly call the Lord's Prayer, Jesus gave us a prescription about what are proper considerations for inclusion, namely:
God's name to be made holy
The kingdom (a real government, see Daniel 2:44)
Daily bread - and this includes our personal needs
Forgiveness of sins

A few things and as simple as that. Also, in other prayers, Jesus made it plain that we should pray for the welfare of others. He lambasted the hypocritical prayers and public displays of the religious leaders and made prayer a personal conversation between human and God. All that doesn't sound anything like what you have said.

And, you've also got the wrong idea about hell; but that's another topic.

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

A child's trust is based on experience and need.

False, given a new born baby has no "experience".

Nor does a newborn have a developed sense of trust, according to the psychologists among us.

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

I can't envision a scenario where a child would intellectually test his trust.

Then you have not heard of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, in both those cases many children do indeed "intellectually test" their trust.

DUH! Intellectually!? Surely, you jest? They ask, Santa Parent delivers.

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

But faith is more mature and can be tested.

You have in no way demonstrated faith is "more mature".

OK, Should be. Perhaps all you know of faith is the Santa Claus variety.

Chumly wrote:

neologist wrote:

In fact, it should be tested.

Given you use the word "should" by what do you make this unsubstantiated claim?

If a person is willing to die for his faith, he durn well better have something more than a Santa promise in mind. (Though some will splatter themselves for a few dozen virgins.)