The Y Chromosome. Or, Girls, and Females, and Crones; Oh My

Portal Star wrote:

This article seems to be much more entertainment than science.

Yeah, Portal Star, as the lines between entertainment and information become thinner and thinner in journalism.

A good article is entertaining to read, but also provides complete information.
Merely informative pieces have driven away readers accustomed to TV.
So more and more journalists, unable to combine readability with accuracy, simply dump to the trash can anything that ressembles accuracy.

But I digress.

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right, but this is the debate forum, so I figured I'd treat it as though it were an argument.

I'll bet those scienctists were sad to see how they were quoted in this article!

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I was interviewed once for a paper, as I had some art up in the "Vagina Monologues" show. The interviewer was leading, she asked me questions like, "Why wouldn't a man be able to paint a woman?" The article made me look like a femme-bot by the time she was through with it.
At least it was good publicity.

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The article is nothing more than another jab in the interminable feminist wars liberation, and it is amusing. Patiodog got it right as to the reason for sexual as apposed to asexual reproduction. We did not know about chromosomes until about 100 years ago, and male self regard has been around for much longer. So they have little to contribute to the issue. Males (and I'm one), are not going to disappear.

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Quote:

Can someone get me more info about what this "y" turning around thing is? I hope they aren't talking about yy syndrome..

During meiosis (the process by which normal cells turn into sperm and eggs), "matching" (or homologous) chromosomes line up together and "cross over" -- that is, some genetic material is exchanged between the two chromosomes, which then migrate to opposite ends of the cell before the cell divides. This helps ensure that the chromosomes in the daughter cells are not the same as those in the parent cell, and helps increase genetic diversity in a population. This is recombination. Apparently this happens very little or not at all with the Y chromosome, which may lead to ongoing and eventual diminishment over many generations as any genetic material lost from the Y chromosome may not be replaced, as it were, during meiosis. Probably the Y chromosome was complete way back there in evolutionary time and was accidentally reduced somehow, but I'm not up on my genetics, so I don't know when or in what. Given the diversity of sex deterination mechanisms in the insects, I expect it occurred prior to the evolution of the chordates (loosely translated, the vertebrates), but, again, I'm just speculating and possibly misremembering some things here. Since the Y chromosome was conserved, though, I suspect it must have conferred some advantage or other.

Incidentally, female mammals only use one of their sex chromosomes, anyway. Early in development, one of the X chromosomes becomes dormant and lodges itself on the inside of the nuclear envelope of the cell -- it's called a Barr body. This happens some time after the first cleavage of the zygote, though, and it happens randomly, so as an organism the female does have the advantage of expressing genes from both chromosomes.

Does that help at all?

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dlowan wrote:

Well, DNA sampling of wild animal populations has certainly put paid to the notion that the females mate only with their chosen pair partner, or the male in whose "harem" they are - despite the efforts of the males to ensure that this is so - and to the surprise of the scientists discovering the bedroom secrets of the critters involved!

It seems that, in nature, girls just wanna have fun - or, led by wise genes, they wish to add variety and wild cards to the genetic mix.

As a male, the strategy of hanging out on the fringes of the family goings on, and watching for wandering eyes and beckoning glances from the females, while would-be papa is away, or sleeping, and such, is a good one, if you want your genes to wander through the ages.

Of course, you risk being beat up a bit. It seems some amorous couples actually hide away together for some nookie.

Lots of male insects and such have "get rid of the last sperm and plug where you just been strategies" too - not all involving becoming a plug yourself.

'Tis a wise child that knows itas own father.

Best to know your DNA mate, or suffer the genetic consequences of recessive mutant accumulation.

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This is the "extreme edge" of feminism I have been referring to.

I agree with fbaezer, it's quite a dumb article.

Dowd needs to lean something we all eventually do: The war of the sexes will have no winner. Because of all the sleeping with the enemy.

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Actually there is no such thing as an "X" chromozone, it is a term used to denote the absense of a "Y" chromozone. Genetically speaking if you are unendowed, you are male!

[And the "Y" symbol represents a man with no head, and no legs; the "no head" has been common knowledge for years, but the "no legs" is new!]

Seriously, science currently has no need for the male in reproduction, cloning sidesteps the question, admittedly with shortcomings, but as research progresses, boilogical procreation may become another historical note.

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BGW,

Your last sentence is fallacious on several levels. Since I'm mean I'll leave it to you to figure it all out. Twisted Evil

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Oh! Craven you're soooo mean; acusing me of fallatio!

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There was an hour-long program devoted to this on NPR. Dowd has done one of her typical hatchet jobs here. The scientist who was interviewed was the one who had "decoded" the Y chromosome, and he was very impressed by its ability to "survive" genetically by a "mirroring" of its material, rather than the typical mechanism of duplication. I wish i could recall more of it, because it would expose Dowd for the fraud she is in this piece--a literary habit of hers which leads me to avoid wasting my time on her writing.

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Did not, and it was downright mean of you to say that!

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Oops, that last one is to BGW, who understands irony well.

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I think, perhaps we should throw this entire thread down an
"irony well"

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Damn, now I'm typing responses in the wrong threads;
that was meant for thr Georgy Porgy Puddin....... thread.

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By going to the NPR site, i got the following story:

The Whitehead Institute wrote:

WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 18, 2003) - In the biological battle between the sexes, the Y chromosome has suffered defeat after defeat. The male-determining chromosome has seen its gene supply shrink from more than 1,000 genes when sex chromosomes first evolved, to what scientists once thought was only a handful of genes, a downward trend predicted to continue until the Y disappeared altogether.

But two studies presented today at a Washington, D.C., press conference and published in this week's issue of the journal Nature suggest that the rumors of the Y's demise have been greatly exaggerated. Researchers from Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research in Cambridge, Mass., and Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis found that not only does the Y contain far more genes than scientists thought - the team found about 78 genes - it also includes a large number of genes arranged in pairs along this single chromosome in ways that may allow the Y to mimic the paired chromosome structure of the rest of the genome.

Here's the link for that page: MIT's Whitehead Institute[/color]

Here's a link for the NPR page on the show i had heard: NPR's Morning Edition[/color]

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patiodog wrote:

Quote:
...
Does that help at all?

Thank you, yes it does. Although I would like to know more about the subject. That was a bit of a Biology refresher.

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Yikes. I like Maureen's column sometimes, and think this one was in jest to some extent, but it caused me to frown severely. Agreed immediately with dlowan's yecccch. Maybe Maureen likes to stir up flame and discussion to watch the results, but it seems more like a quick and easy take to get a column out.

I am not too keen on writing that diminishes either males or females by any of the means I see it done, including this one...that is why the yeccch. I have no idea if Maureen Dowd personally wants to diminish human males, or if she couldn't resist the chance to tease, but it fell flat.

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Er - any explanation anywhere of why the Y would be doing things differently from the X?

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dlowan wrote:

Er - any explanation anywhere of why the Y would be doing things differently from the X?

Maybe Y wouldn't stop to ask for directions? Very Happy

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The Y Chromosome. Or, Girls, and Females, and Crones; Oh My

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