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The Y Chromosome. Or, Girls, and Females, and Crones; Oh My

 
 
sumac
 
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 08:31 am
Incredible Shrinking Y

July 9, 2003
By MAUREEN DOWD

Why, oh Y, are men so insecure? The darlings have been fretting for some years now that they may be rendered unnecessary if women get financial and biological independence, learning how to reproduce and
refinance without them. What if nature played a cruel trick and demoted men, so they had to be judged merely by their appearance, pliability and talent for gazing raptly at the opposite sex, no matter how bored?

New research on the Y chromosome shows that my jittery male friends are not paranoid; they are in an evolutionary shame spiral.

As Nicholas Wade wrote in The Times: "Although most men are unaware of the peril, the Y chromosome has been shedding genes furiously over the course of evolutionary time, and it is now a fraction of the size of its partner, the X chromosome. . . . The decay of the Y stems from the fact that it is forbidden to enjoy the principal advantage of sex, which is, of course, for each member of a pair of chromosomes to swap matching pieces of DNA with its partner."

Mr. Wade said that biologists in Cambridge, Mass., had made a remarkable discovery: "Denied the benefits of recombining
with the X, the Y recombines with itself."

The ultimate guys' night out. Simply put, the Y chromosome figured out a Herculean way to save itself from extinction by making an incredibly difficult hairpin turn and swapping molecular material with itself.

Self-love as a survival mechanism: the unflinching narcissism of men may send women into despair at times, but it has saved their sex for the next 5 million or 10 million years.

But, according to Olivia Judson, science's answer to the sensual British cook Nigella Lawson, men may need more than narcissism to survive.

Dr. Judson, a 33-year-old evolutionary biologist at Imperial College in London who has written a book about animals in a Dear Abby style, or Deer Abby, under the pen name Dr. Tatiana, says the worm has turned. "For a long time, it was assumed that promiscuity was good for males and bad for females in terms of the number of kids they
could have," she explains. "But it wasn't until 1988 that it really started to become evident that females were benefiting from having sex with lots of males, with more promiscuous females having more and healthier offspring."

In her book, Dr. Judson writes about powerful babes, noting that females in more than 80 species, like praying mantises, have been caught devouring their lovers before, during or after mating. "I'm particularly fond," she told me, "of the green spoon worm. . . . The male is 200,000 times smaller, effectively a little parasite who lives in her reproductive tract, fertilizing her eggs and regurgitating sperm through his mouth."

And then there's the tiny female midge, who plunges her proboscis into the male midge's head during procreation. As Dr. Judson told the journalist Ken Ringle, "Her spittle turns his innards to soup, which she slurps up, drinking until she's sucked him dry."

The Economist recently reported on a variation of the creepy-crawly girl-eats-boy love stories. The male orb-weaving spider kills himself before the female has a chance to. Biologists now believe that the male orb-weaver dies when he turns himself into a plug to prevent other males from copulating, thus ensuring his genes are more likely to live on.

In a new book called "Y: The Descent of Men," Steve Jones, a professor of genetics at University College in London, says males, always a genetic "parasite," have devolved to become the "second sex."

The news that Dolly the sheep had been cloned without masculine aid sent a frisson through the Y populace, he writes, because men began to fear that science would cause nature to return to its original, feminine state and men would fade from view.

The Y chromosome, "a mere remnant of its once mighty structure," is worried about size. "Men are wilting away," Dr. Jones writes. "From sperm count to social status and from fertilization to death, as civilization advances, those who bear Y chromosomes are in relative decline."

Perhaps that's why men are adapting, becoming more passive and turning into "metrosexuals," the new term for straight men who are feminized, with a taste for facials, grooming products and home design.

Better to be an X chromosome than an ex-chromosome.


Incredible Shrinking Y
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New Haven
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 08:45 am
WHy all the fuss about a little chromatin?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:05 am
"Evolutionary shame spiral"? What kind of crap is that?

I have no idea what is meant by: "The ultimate guys' night out. Simply put, the Y chromosome figured out a Herculean way to save itself from extinction by making an incredibly difficult hairpin turn and swapping molecular material with itself. "? Can anyone explain that in actual scientific terms? Is it accurate?

I have to say I find the whole tone of that article extremely yeccch.

Also, whatever the y chromosome may, or may not be doing, I find it very difficult to believe it affects men's emotional sense of themselves!


"Self-love as a survival mechanism: the unflinching narcissism of men may send women into despair at times, but it has saved their sex for the next 5 million or 10 million years."

Apart from generalising in a very insulting way about nearly half of the human race - in a way that would, quite rightly, send me into a typing rage if it were used of the other 51% - if a chromosome survives for 5 to 10 million years, it is, I think, doing damn well - most species not, I think, surviving nearly so long.

Er, I shall go away and compose myself - really, the tone of that piece has made me quite discombobulated.

If there is a scientifis basis to it - as I assume there is - it would be interesting to read about it - but really, Maureen Dowd might well have let the science speak for itself - or let someone else speak for it.
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:24 am
Imagine what would happen to baseball?

Anyway, anyone ever see the movie "Roger Dodger?" There's a funny scene where this guy is explaining why the male race will go extinct(and why the clitoris is on the outside of the female genitila). Either way, great movie.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:25 am
Huh. I just took it as an amusing bit of fluff that has me interested to goi check out recombination in chordate males.

Course, if this is true and the rest of the chordate animals (except for an asexually reproducing, all-female population of frogs on some island in the pacific and a few others) don't find a new means of reproduction and genetic recombination before the Y chromosome goes bye-bye, most of them are going to go bye-bye, too. I've never heard it suggested, though, that what remains of Y chromosome doesn't cross over with it's "sister" chromasome. Will have to go do some reading later...
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:25 am
Does "Roger Dodger" remind you of your childhood, slap? (Yep, funny damn movie.)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:34 am
I recall reading something in a scientific journal about this. Something to do with men becoming about as necessary as an appendix. I'll have to mull about where that article was.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:45 am
Well, DNA sampling of wild animal populations has certainly put paid to the notion that the females mate only with their chosen pair partner, or the male in whose "harem" they are - despite the efforts of the males to ensure that this is so - and to the surprise of the scientists discovering the bedroom secrets of the critters involved!

It seems that, in nature, girls just wanna have fun - or, led by wise genes, they wish to add variety and wild cards to the genetic mix.

As a male, the strategy of hanging out on the fringes of the family goings on, and watching for wandering eyes and beckoning glances from the females, while would-be papa is away, or sleeping, and such, is a good one, if you want your genes to wander through the ages.

Of course, you risk being beat up a bit. It seems some amorous couples actually hide away together for some nookie.

Lots of male insects and such have "get rid of the last sperm and plug where you just been strategies" too - not all involving becoming a plug yourself.

'Tis a wise child that knows itas own father.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:48 am
I do have some difficulty with this premise, in that the examples offered to support it are all among insects, whose mechanism of sex determinism is not always the same as it is in vertebrates.

Male grasshoppers, crickets, and roaches, for example, have only one sex chromosome. Conceivably, then, the Y chromosome isn't even necessary for male sex determination (though a mammal with only one sex chromosome (X) will be morphologically female). Most species of bees and ants do not even have sex chromosomes. Males are haploid (one set of chromosomes) while females are diploid (two sets).

In fact, the vertebrate/invertebrate distinction isn't even a very good one, I realize as I look back at my biology textbook. In birds, some fishes, and some insects, sex is determined not by the male gamete (the sperm), but by the female gamete (the egg).

At any rate, there are substantial enough differences in sex determination between insects and arachnids and mammals that examples from the many-legged critters do little to elucidate the condition of the human male.

I'll look up the recombination of the Y chromosome later. At any rate, I've always considered it a foregone conlcusion that we'd go extinct sooner or later. Hopefully it's far enough in the future that I don't need to worry about it.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:49 am
Hell, I'm taking my X chromosome and going home...
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:50 am
Wait, here we go. From fruit flies, which do have an XY system...

Quote:
When meiosis occurs in the testis, the X and Y chromosomes behave like homologous chromosomes, although they are only partially homologous and undergo very little crossing over with each other.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:50 am
well, being an accessory appendage will sure free me up.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 09:51 am
I am taking mine to heaven....
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 10:31 am
patiodog wrote:
Does "Roger Dodger" remind you of your childhood, slap? (Yep, funny damn movie.)


Yes. I used to pick up hot women when I was 15 in bars, too.

Actually, that was me for a long time. Then I saw the light.


"Who was the greatest basketball player of all time? That's right, Michael Jordan. Why was Michael Jordan so great? He used to call the end of tehe game 'winning time.' Here in the bars, it's called 'closing time.' You've got to be on your best game. Drink water, tell them it's gin+tonic, whatever....you see those two guys over there? They think they're kicking ass...but there's 9 hours until closing time."
0 Replies
 
sumac
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 11:41 am
You gotta love the variety of responses here: dismissal, anger, disbelief,ridicule,pensiveness,off-topic digressions......
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 11:51 am
What, I'm trying to look at it logically. Is Maureen Dowd more qualified to extrapolate meaning from this than I am?
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 11:57 am
For instance,

Quote:
The news that Dolly the sheep had been cloned without masculine aid sent a frisson through the Y populace, he writes, because men began to fear that science would cause nature to return to its original, feminine state and men would fade from view.


refers to a response that I quite frankly did not see. The problem with asexual reproduction -- even cloning, if perfected -- is that is eliminates genetic recombination, which in the long run is probably a very bad thing. Flowering plants, for instance, have evolved elaborate mechanisms to ensure that pollination occurs between different individuals, even though self-pollination would seem to be much simpler. Consider the difficulty of pollination of one individual of a desert species with pollen from another species. Recombination and sexual reproduction must confer a great advantage on a species (at least in plants) if it has become so prevalent as to practically eliminate the possibility of self-pollination in many species.

Not being defensive here. Just making an observation.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 12:11 pm
In her search for a "punchy" and "witty" journalistic style, Maureen Dowd has written one of the dumbest pieces I've ever read on the NYT.

Come on, according to her, chromosomes don't mix, they have sex... and have fun at it.
X chromosomes are gay.
Y chromosomes are onanist.
Men are narcissists because their Y chromosomes screw themselves.
Y chromosomes have become smaller out of solitude.
When Y chromosomes read in the paper about Dolly they went beserk.

Dunno, perhaps in the dark past before Germaine Greer & Betty Friedan, spermatozoids were huge, Y chromosomes made strong sex with X chromosomes and women didn't care that men could think about themselves.
0 Replies
 
Portal Star
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 12:14 pm
Humans are one of the most overpopulated species on the planet, we'll most likely overconsume our resources and die/shrink in size. Or get a disease, or war. You know, a bit from the four horses. I doubt that would leave enough time or motive for humans to evolve into somthing like those frogs. We aren't even in a position where they would need to evolve to be more geneticaly successful, we are over-populated. Males get plenty of sex, and humans are over populated. As a species, we've been having fewer babies on average, replacing ourselves instead of growing the population (thank you birth control, gayness). I don't see why the male species would be having genetic trouble. Can someone get me more info about what this "y" turning around thing is? I hope they aren't talking about yy syndrome...

It makes more sense for there to be more females, as men can donate sperm at least once a day, and women only have one egg per month released, and if that gets fertilized it would take nine - ten months for another egg to be ready to be fertilized.

Part of determining whether a man's chromosomes are good comes from human interaction and courtship. There is a reason why certain people's pheremones smell better than others, and reasons why a man who can dance is sexy, even how certain people are attracted to certain physical characteristics plays a genetic role.

You can't determine genetic compatability from a test tube, nor can it dance (well), and I'd be hard pressed to find someone who said the test tube was handsome. What can a test tube do for you in bed?

This article seems to be much more entertainment than science.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2003 12:16 pm
Quote:
Also, what can a test tube do for you in bed?


I'm not touching this one. But surely the article was written mainly in jest, right? I didn't exactly take it as serious speculation...
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