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Prius Outpollutes Hummer

 
 
cjhsa
 
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:04 am
The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care.
Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ?'green car' is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving.

The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg.

This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius.

As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship toe largest nickel refinery inEurope. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ?'nickel foam.' From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 6,722 • Replies: 73
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:17 am
That was funny! Laughing

Thanks for sharing, cjhsa!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:18 am
On another forum where this article was posted, a detailed debate ensued. Amongst the responses was this:

Quote:
69Cougar
Message Posted: 3/11/2007 5:31:37 PM

Hi, I am the student who wrote the article. I have been in Cancun for a week, and I checked my email, and have two pages of responses: half of the people telling me I am an idiot, the other half telling me they loved the article.

This was an editorial. I did a good amount of research for it, and I would love to provide links to the sources I used.

I wrote this article because there is an air of superiority amongst hybrid owners vs the rest of us. I believe the hybrid is a half-assed solution to a serious energy crisis, and instead of wasting time on articles like this, we should be working on developing permanent solutions, like bio-d, eletric cars, or hydrogen based cars.

I have an opinion regarding hybrids, which I tried to back up with facts. I can see I need to provide more firm evidence to convince some of you. However, I had no idea anyone outside of my school would even read this since I simply considered taking a shot at the smug professors around here.

I am just a student, so everything you guys write, I am reading, and learning. However, I ask you do not judge my charachter based on my opinion.


Just for context..
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:23 am
Hey nimh, you have a battery named after you!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:41 am
Re: Prius Outpollutes Hummer
cjhsa wrote:
As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ?'dead zone' around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188


someone either hasn't been in Sudbury for about 20 years, or they're quoting something from 25 - 30 years ago.

the greening of Sudbury

by the time I moved there in the early 90's, the place was greeeeeen

still kinda stinky a couple of days a year - but not at all what it was like in the 1960's and 70's
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:49 am
Well, actually Walter, some of the things cj said are the reason I didn't buy a Prius.

I don't know about the cost to build/run a prius vs a hummer as far as the pollution it produces, but....

For the extra money I'd pay for a Toyata Corolla over a Prius, I figured I would have to own the Prius for 6 years before I would break even.

I watched my driving and found where I drive I very seldom go under 30 miles an hour, so I'd be using the gas component most of the time. Plus I make every effort to drive efficiently, timing lights so I don't have to come to a complete stop (even going a couple miles an hour when the light turns green means a lot less gas needed to accelerate back up)...coasting down hills.....looking ahead on the road to watch for slowing traffic instead of flying up like an idiot and slamming on the brakes...keeping my car tuned and tires inflated...timing trips so I can do 3 or 4 things instead of one....In other words, driving like a thinking human being.

It's my firm belief if everyone slowed down 10 mph, paid a little attention to what they were doing, and God forbid bought a car that was truly appropriate for the number of people that ride in it, it would equal if not exceed the efficiency of a hybrid.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:56 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
That was funny! Laughing

Thanks for sharing, cjhsa!


I expect nothing less from you, oh logical one. I'm sure your farts don't stink either, so you don't have to expend carbon credits for them.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 10:59 am
Well, a Prius is thought to be a town car, Chai.
A Coralla certainly isn't.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:00 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, a Prius is thought to be a town car, Chai.
A Coralla certainly isn't.



I don't know what you mean Walter.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:02 am
Well, here in Europe, a Prius is a car for driving more in towns than over longer distances.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:14 am
Does anyone really believe an H3 will make it to 300,000 miles, but a Civic won't?
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:24 am
What do you consider long distance?

30 mph is approx 48 kph, not very fast.

I might drive my car around 25 mph down my side street, lined with houses, but it's a very small road, residential. My street is about 8 blocks long. As soon as I turn off it, I'm certainly going to be doing at least 35. If it's not rush hour, a person drives at least 45, that's the posted speed limit. And that's just going somewhere 2 miles away. I've lived in tiny towns, and cities like Austin that are spread out. When I lived in an actual Village, people drove around it faster than 35.

To get to work, I drive down a hill, and through a park, getting up to 45.
Then I'm on a highway for, oh, 8 miles going 55 to 60.

On Saturdays to get basic errands run, I drive 15 to 20 miles over the course of a few hours, again, 80% of it is over 35mph.

My "have to" driving equals maybe 125 miles a week. Not exactly long distance. If that amount were halved, like what you might consider around town, the extra price of a Prius could hardly be justified for 9 miles a day. I believe it is a way for some people to buy a feeling they are doing a green thing, when in reality, they could do much better just slowing down. America's like that, we'd rather spend our money on something that could be done for free.

I get 35 mph in my corolla, and I don't believe the prius gets the stated 60mph in normal driving conditions, like up and down hills.

I just don't believe the Prius can beat sensible people driving the way they should.

But, I'm listening Walter...tell me of your experiences.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:43 am
I honestly don't see the difference between a puny Corolla and slightly larger but still puny Prius when it comes to distance driving.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:45 am
That's what I'm saying.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 11:50 am
I neither like the Corolla nor the Prius. So I might easily have something mixed up.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 03:01 pm
Bumping from this morningÂ….

You know, I find it strange that people in general want to talk about new technology for hybrids, but as soon as it goes from something new you can buy that will permit you just keep living your same lifestyle, to actually taking a little bit upon yourself to live more sanely, there is dead silence.

I really don't understand people. They want to whine and bitch about the cost of gas, and discuss the politics of whose fault it is that the prices are artificially high. But to suggest that someone take 5 minutes longer to get where you going? To ask why someone who drives alone 95% of the time needs an SUV? You'll get a look like you should be in the loony bin.

Is it really that important to people to drive 75 rather than 60? Is it that hard to look a block and a half ahead to see the light just turned red and you don't need to race up to it?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 03:04 pm
Well, no, not for me.

My car really uses only very little diesel, is excellent in CO2 emission, has a carbon filter .... and is fast :wink:
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 03:07 pm
feets, take me walking.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 03:19 pm
article may well be right, but it still makes more sense to have a Prius in town (if you really must have a car) than a Hummer. But I'm an avid anti-hummerist, so I don't make any claims to be objective.

Plus, I will keep riding my bicycle in town for as many years as I'll be able to. When I can't, I take the public transportation.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2007 03:22 pm
Im a dead set against the ethanol pushing thats going on. Sunoco has already changed over to a 15% ethanol mix and theyre already having gasoline spills into ground water worse than the old MTBE spills (ethanol is more fluid and more soluble than MTBE)

As a farmer, the price of cor has jumped to over 4 bucks a bushel,wait a couple months and watch all the food price jumps.
Biodesel is good as long as it doesnt rob food stores, Ethanol from garbage is a big possibility that we havent spent anything on.Id love to "mine an old landfill" for making ethanol. Itd reduce the volume by 50% and wed have some waste to energy.

As far as cj's findings, Id like to raed more about the comparisons on an aples to apples basis. Loading a per mile cost based upon some antcipated car life is kind of a stupid comparison because when one does "life cycle" costs , one adds the cost of a total refit as an add-on to the cost of operation. So, it appears that, we will need 3 Prii to make the life of one Hummer (H1, H2, or H3?).

Yeh Ive been to Sudbury many times and the old nickel sulfide pits and acid leachate are a thing of the 60:s and 70's , so theres a big error in analysis
0 Replies
 
 

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