Thinking about it a bit and reading all of these wonderful stories and ideas from everyone I think I can almost recall when social norm began to think and question more openly.
20 years ago I was working in a restaurant in Hartford. There were a pair of gentlemen, mid 30's/40's, that would come in quite often and just discuss a great many things. They would always ask me about my 'younger' more open and exploring views on the issue at hand and would continue on with that view included in their discussions.
One day only I realized one gentleman was astonished, and the other smirking when I gave reply to their current request of my opinion. Their usual response was equally interested or laughing, etc so, this one day sticks out in my mind the most.
The question of the day was "Would you marry a man of color?". My reply was "Certainly". The probing for a why I would answer such a thing in such a way is what really sticks out for me and leads me to believe it was more of an educational societal thing.
One man, the one of shocked response asks, "You see nothing wrong with this?"
"No, I believe you can love anyone regardless of the color of their skin" is my reply.
He then asks of me "What would your father think?"
"He would disown me I believe, but that alone certainly wouldnt stop my feelings for someone" I say to his continued shock.
At this point the other speaks out and asks "Is this the only thing you see as a negative effect of that situation?"
"No," I reply. From there I go on to explain to them my feelings of how society is changing, and that in my lifetime I'm not sure if it would be an easy thing to live through due to the hate that remains, and I would also have a great concern for the treatment of children from such a relationship but, still, if I cared that deeply for a person, the color of their skin would not matter to me, shouldnt matter to others.
It was quite another interesting day at the restaurant, more than usual. It was the one time these gentlemen wanted to know if I could join them for discussions more often, perhaps taking break or lunch with them but, I had a strict rule about customers, and heck...they were really strangers but, I would continue on as usual with them at any time. You know, of my regular customers, these guys begged to give me a tip when they found out I had to leave to go off to college, its unfortunate the establishment wouldnt allow that, to their dismay. I feel however that the amount of knowledge I learned from them, as well as perhaps they from me is unimaginable in value.
...another time I was on the receiving end of predjudice was when i was doing voluntary work when i was about 20. A friend and I were helping an Irish woman with 3 half afro-carribbean children under 4 years, to travel to Holyhead by train, to catch the ferry to Ireland. the mother had been mentally and phsyically ill and needed help. She was not wearing her wedding ring because her marriage had broken up. My friend and i were single.
We all had a mixed race child apiece on the journey and i was amazed at the rudeness of people who had to be asked to move their bags so that we could sit down with the children,
Once again I was naive. It wasn't until the return journey when i commented on it that my friend pointed out why - no wedding rings and mixed race children - racial predjudice.
Well, now, folks, i've enjoyed your responses, and i ask that you will visit this thread:
Perception[/color]
I read this thead right before I went to sleep and woke up thinking about it. My family told stories about being the victims of bigotry. My mother was kicked in the stomach and called a kike when she was a child. When my uncle was in the army during WWII, someone who had never seen a Jew wanted to see my uncle's horns. There are more such stories.
There's also the other side. The small-mindedness of my family toward others. Narrowness, hatred, irrational contempt. When I got old enough to figure things out for myself, I argued with my family about these things. I eventually realized that I wasn't going to change their minds. I was so offended by what they said that I banned such talk from my presence.
So you must be thinking that I'm an open-minded, fair, and reasonable person about such matters. You're wrong. I'm a bigot. After 9/11, I found myself feeling the narrowness, hatred, and irrational contempt that my family had felt. My next-door neighbors were Muslims. A nice family. I wanted them out. Away from me. I was afraid they were building bombs. Afraid and filled with hate. I never acted on or said anything about these feelings, but they were there.
I've calmed down a bit. I'm no longer overwhelmed with feelings of hatred. But I don't know that I'll ever be able to get beyond my sense of distrust. I'm not happy that I feel the way I do. But I don't know how to make the feeling go away.
Roberta- Thank you so much for sharing your innermost thoughts. I think that there are many people who are have similar feelings, but won't admit it, even to themselves.
It has become "politically incorrect" to even suggest that one is not evenhanded in evaluating all people. Recognizing, understanding and accepting of one's own bigotries is the first step in dealing with them.
I've lived with discrimination during most of my childhood, so I have no tolerance for it as an adult. People used to ask if I would ever tell my children not to marry blacks, but I answered whoever they married was okay by me. They're both intelligent enough to make up their own minds about such important decisions. We are Japanese American, and many in our family have married into other races and cultures. I'm very proud of that, because it shows that at least in our family, bigotry is disappearing. We have Chinese, black, Hispanic, Polynesian, English, German, Italian and I don't know what all. James Michener calls our family the Golden People. c.i.
All this bigotry (that we encounter in the world) is truly stupid. If that is being politically correct, so be it.
I like Michener's description, c.i.
No, I love it.
Roberta wrote:I read this thead right before I went to sleep and woke up thinking about it. My family told stories about being the victims of bigotry. My mother was kicked in the stomach and called a kike when she was a child. When my uncle was in the army during WWII, someone who had never seen a Jew wanted to see my uncle's horns. There are more such stories...
...So you must be thinking that I'm an open-minded, fair, and reasonable person about such matters. You're wrong. I'm a bigot. After 9/11, I found myself feeling the narrowness, hatred, and irrational contempt that my family had felt. My next-door neighbors were Muslims. A nice family. I wanted them out. Away from me. I was afraid they were building bombs. Afraid and filled with hate. I never acted on or said anything about these feelings, but they were there.
I've calmed down a bit. I'm no longer overwhelmed with feelings of hatred. But I don't know that I'll ever be able to get beyond my sense of distrust. I'm not happy that I feel the way I do. But I don't know how to make the feeling go away.
I'm sorry/ashamed to say I feel/felt the same way, not about Muslims per se, but about Arabs. I would overcompensate with those I know around town by asking if they were doing okay (due to the government round-up etc ...), yet part of me wanted to just scream at them, "How could you"!! I
know it is irrational and it certainly does not fit in with the way I like to think of myself, but I must say, running across your post - the courage I know it must have taken to write it - has given me the courage to write something along the same lines. Still, admitting it makes me want to fall to my knees and beg God's forgiveness ...
Well, now we know why you think a criticism of the Israeli govt. is anti semitism.
I pressed "submit" and went about my business. At one point I thought, "Oh, no. What have I done." I came back here with some trepidation. The posts that preceded mine were about tolerance and overcoming small-mindedness. If this thread had been started in August 2001, I would have written similar thoughts. I decided to be honest. This is how I feel. I don't like that I feel this way.
It was not my intention to "start something." Edgar, I have never entered into a political discussion about Israel. I've never said anything about people who take a stance against Israel as being antisemitic.
Frankly, I don't want to get into a political discussion. I just said what I felt.
Roberta, Roberta, not to worry!
EB was directing that shot at me, not at you. He did so because on the "WHITENESS" thread I called him on anti-Semitism and the thread has been locked, so I presume he has been waiting to hurt me right back. Whatever, honey, it was NOT directed at you!
However, this is illustrative of how difficult it is to open up on these boards; one just never know what's going to slam you when you try to be honest...
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Roberta--
I just wanted to say how much I think of your courageous honesty. If more people felt they could share their feelings on such a sensitive subject, we could more easily talk openly about feelings, such as those you shared--and make real progress in blaming the individual and not the ethnic group.
Arab people were looked at more closely following 911, because they looked like those who plotted to kill us. Most of the nation reacted the same way you did, but we worked through it, as you did.
For once, living in a small town afforded me a luxury. There are no Arabs in our town, so I wasn't faced with a close up and personal temptation to blame them for 911. I didn't feel animosity toward Arabs in general, but I did go through a severe questioning and research of Islam. At its' end, I didn't hold the religion responsible-- but during my searching period, I was open to the possibility it, and its' followers, could be painted with a broad brush. Previous to that, I'd thought my broad brush had been permanently retired. Possibly, our tendancy to group people into categories is never permanently retired--but has to be put away every day.
grouping things (people too) into categories is necessary
it's imperfect, but it helps us to make sense of the world
we're all individuals, but each one of us can be categorized (negative or positive) in many different ways
I'm not afraid of categories because I know what's in my heart.
I think categorizing (assigning traits, defects, moral codes...) people by ethnicity is prejudice. People are individuals, and cannot fairly be assigned responsibility for the actions of members of their religion or race.
How do you categorize Arabs? What traits do they all have in common?
What is your category for blacks?
categorize
cat·e·go·rize [ káttg rz ]
put somebody or something into category: to place somebody or something in a particular category and define or judge the person or thing accordingly
as I said, it's imperfect
most arabs are Muslim, most blacks have dark skin...
Is it ok for me to visualize black people as having dark skin? Does that make me prejudiced?
In the definition, I guess the "judgement" part is key
