White House Under Fire for Human Rights Abuses Again

yup.

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Thanks, bear.

But since Brandon addressed me personnally and alleged me to have dishonest motives in becoming a member here (= cretaing a virtual career) and criminal attitude (= insulting his country), I'd liked to have him answering my questions.

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old europe wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Why is it that you make a virtual career out of insulting my country on this board but remain about 99% silent about the most horrible faults of other countries?

This is an American forum, people are posting in English (even if it's not their native language), a large number of members are from America, and most topics on the politics forum are centred around events in or concerning the United States.

And you are seriously complaining that people on this forum are talking about America and the US administration?

I'm seriously complaining that everything that could conceivably be a problem with the United States, big, small, and imaginary results in expressions of indignation here, but the most egregious abuses by other countries are almost always ignored. It's a double standard.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Your usual airtight argument.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Why is it that you make a virtual career out of insulting my country on this board but remain about 99% silent about the most horrible faults of other countries?

I beg your pardon?

Just to clarify, Brandon: I'm here on this site since the very first days - before it was opened generally.
I'm not aware of making a virtual career out of anything, I'm quite content with the one in my real life.

On the other hand: I'm not here on this site to post "most horrible faults in other countries" or in the USA.
I post what I want and what the site's rules allow.

I kindly ask you to show one post where I "insulted you country".
Additionally, where I made a virtual career out of it.

Listen carefully, my assertion is that you make numerous posts pointing out faults with my country, but virtually never make posts complaining about faults with other countries, despite the fact that there are such faults, e.g. the example with which I started this thread. Now you can either argue semantics until we're all nauseated, or respond to the actual point I'm making. No matter how many posts you make in an effort to delay or divert me onto another topic, I will return to this line of discussion until you either answer or stop responding.

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Brandon
Would it help if I said Putin is as baaaad as Bush?

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Your usual airtight argument.

glad you agree.... it's not like you to be so assertive and pugnacious Brandon... did one of your testicles finally drop after all these years? Laughing

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Brandon9000 wrote:

I'm seriously complaining that everything that could conceivably be a problem with the United States, big, small, and imaginary results in expressions of indignation here, but the most egregious abuses by other countries are almost always ignored. It's a double standard.

It's only a double standard if you post here under the assumption that this is an international politics forum, and that equal time should be devoted to the discussion of political issues from all around the world.

What runs kind of contrary to this possible assumption of yours are several things, though, including the description of this forum ("Join us in lively political debate of the day. Democrats, republicans, independents, ...." - sounds like an American audience to me), the geographical location of the domain registration (California) and the language of this forum (English).

And that all leaves aside the pretty obvious fact that a large number of participants here (including you) are Americans, or that the most of the topics (including threads started by you) are centred around American politics.

If you really wanted to talk about the situation in St. Petersburg, why didn't you start this thread in the "International News" forum ("Breaking news on the global level. From Chile to East Timor, from Montenegro to Zimbabwe and everywhere in between, international news offers the day's event from a different perspective.")???

However, you're obviously not interested in discussing the situation in Russia, and I doubt that you were under the impression that this is an "equal time for all political issues from around the world" forum.
It's pretty evident that the only purpose you had for starting this thread was to complain about people who voice a negative opinion about the current US administration.

Of course, you're absolutely entitled to do so.

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that remark,although meant as a joke, may have been a little over the top. Please accept my apology Brandon.

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Oh come on, if Walter was really trying to bring down America, would he post THAT picture as his avatar? Very Happy

I think there was less of a public outcry because nobody looks at Russia as The land Of The Free. At best, it is only somewhat improved from what it was under Stalin, Kruschev, etc.

If anything, the fact that the cops let people demonstrate peacefully at another place is evidence that things have changed somewhat for the better. Previoulsy, they would not have allowed even that.

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Okay. Let's focus on St. Petersburg.

Two opposition leaders - Garry Kasparov and Mikhail Kasyanov - spoke to the crowd; the third one - Eduard Limonov of the National Bolshevik Party - got arrested before the rally began.

Some of the rally's slogans - "Russia Without Putin" and "This is Our City" - reflected the dual nature of the protest: as Mr. Kasyanov said , "residents of St. Petersburg are facing not only federal problems, but a huge number of issues directly related to the life of the city."

St. Petersburg governor Valentina Matviyenko called the rally "a provocation" and stated that its organisers "came from Moscow, accompanied by 120 young extremist protestors."

I must admit that I really have big issues against Limonov. And I don't know enough about what Kapsarov's real intensions to have an own opinion.

But what I do know is that there have been always some troubles in St. Peterburg (big ones in 1991).

It sems, these elections might be the start for new .... perhaps riots.
And I'm rather sure that more will come all over Russia re the 2008 elections.

Some private photos from last Saturday in St. Petersburg here.

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I'll answer as essentially ignorant but interested. Need to catch up on the rest if the thread.
and also any arguments re the proposed skyscaper for gasprom...

So, I'm effectively bookmarking.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

that remark,although meant as a joke, may have been a little over the top. Please accept my apology Brandon.

Wow. You're human. Alright, accepted, but I can assure you that I don't take anything that happens here very seriously.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Listen carefully, my assertion is that you make numerous posts pointing out faults with my country, but virtually never make posts complaining about faults with other countries

What utter bullsh!t, and what astounding hypocrisy from you.

Walter has been a regular contributor to threads about political events and, yes, political abuses, on countries from all over. He has regularly posted on the Ukraine thread, he has regularly posted on the Following the European Union thread, including posts about various things he considered disturbing or wrong in the policies of EU Member States. He has regularly posted about the dictatorial vileness of Karimov's regime in the long-running Uzbekistan thread.

Moroever, if memory serves me well he has also posted in the main thread on this site about Russia, and he has in fact started a thread about the mostly Russian human rights violations in Chechnya.

Meanwhile, if memory serves me well you have not taken part in any of the threads that have dealt with Russia's decline into the totalitarian abyss or its increasing strongarming of its neighbours. Not the Ukraine thread, not the Georgia thread, not the Chechnya threads, not the Uzbekistan thread, not the Russia thread itself.

And yet now you dare to vent outrage that your liberal and/or European opponents do not speak out when something goes wrong in another country? Oh yes they do, as you could have found out easily if you had ever taken the trouble to look into the International News forum.

But the sad thing is that, judging on your non-participation in any thread thats not directly to do with either America or the real and perceived threats of WMD and extremist Muslims, its you who dont give a flying f*ck about human rights violations in Russia or elsewhere. Even now, the only reason you started this thread is because you thought it was something you could hit liberals over the head with.

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kelticwizard wrote:

If anything, the fact that the cops let people demonstrate peacefully at another place is evidence that things have changed somewhat for the better. Previoulsy, they would not have allowed even that.

Demonstrations were quite freely allowed and in fact a very common occurrence in the late eighties and 1990s. But under Putin, Russia is sliding backwards extremely quickly.

The most alarming recent step back is the new law on NGOs. NGOs have formed the backbone of what especially in the early 1990s had been a lively civil society with many human rights and democracy initiatives. The new law makes it all but impossible for foreign NGOs to have a Russian branch or support Russian NGOs, and makes the existence and activities of the remaining Russian NGOs completely dependent on the whims of the state.

That is why groups as divergent as the neo-Bolsheviks (Limonov) and the democratic opposition (Kasparov) are joining forces in protest. But they dont stand a chance anymore. The state's grip has become all but total.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

but I can assure you that I don't take anything that happens here very seriously.

Well, thanks, nimh, but I really don't want to built more on my virtual carreer here.

So, Brandon, you asked about my attitude towards those happenings in St. Petersburg, I not only give an answer but a link to a couple of photos made by someone who took part in that demo.
And now you say, you don't take it seriously.

So obviously you only wanted to publish openly something about me and what you think my attitude is.

Well done.

Since I'm postimng under my real name, since I've some functions which include a membership in an organisation initiated by the USAmerican embassy, I see no reason to get discredated by some Brandon-Joe in public.

It has been nice to have met you.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Listen carefully, my assertion is that you make numerous posts pointing out faults with my country, but virtually never make posts complaining about faults with other countries

Just to underline the stupidity of this assertion, here are some threads actually started by Walter that you can find on the last 10 pages of the International News forum:

[URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=84096]The new rise of the far right in Europe (elections Belgium)[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=65151]Australia: Race warfare divides city[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=84007]Danish party-youth made contest for most insulting cartoon[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48864]Austria: Haider founds new right wing party[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=82378]Belgium right-wing group in 'terror-plot'[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=80521]Slave Labor in German Ice Cream Cafes[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=80386]France''s Nuclear Tests In Pacific ''Gave Islanders Cancer''[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79764]Norwegian cartoonist likens Israel's PM Olmert to Nazis[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=77995]World drug use on the rise[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75585]Azerbaijan 'flattened' sacred Armenian site[/URL] [URL=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=75396]Young man wounds 25 in Berlin knife attack[/URL]
-----------------------------------

Here is the total number of threads started by Brandon in the last 10 pages of the International News forum:

[color=blue]... [/color]
-----------------------------------

Number of posts found in A2K search with "putin russia" by Walter: 40

Number of posts found in A2K search with "putin russia" by Brandon: 3.

Idjit.

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nimh wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Listen carefully, my assertion is that you make numerous posts pointing out faults with my country, but virtually never make posts complaining about faults with other countries

What utter bullsh!t, and what astounding hypocrisy from you.

Walter has been a regular contributor to threads about political events and, yes, political abuses, on countries from all over. He has regularly posted on the Ukraine thread, he has regularly posted on the Following the European Union thread, including posts about various things he considered disturbing or wrong in the policies of EU Member States. He has regularly posted about the dictatorial vileness of Karimov's regime in the long-running Uzbekistan thread.

Moroever, if memory serves me well he has also posted in the main thread on this site about Russia, and he has in fact started a thread about the mostly Russian human rights violations in Chechnya.

Meanwhile, if memory serves me well you have not taken part in any of the threads that have dealt with Russia's decline into the totalitarian abyss or its increasing strongarming of its neighbours. Not the Ukraine thread, not the Georgia thread, not the Chechnya threads, not the Uzbekistan thread, not the Russia thread itself.

And yet now you dare to vent outrage that your liberal and/or European opponents do not speak out when something goes wrong in another country? Oh yes they do, as you could have found out easily if you had ever taken the trouble to look into the International News forum.

But the sad thing is that, judging on your non-participation in any thread thats not directly to do with either America or the real and perceived threats of WMD and extremist Muslims, its you who dont give a flying f*ck about human rights violations in Russia or elsewhere. Even now, the only reason you started this thread is because you thought it was something you could hit liberals over the head with.

Walter, as a specific person, may be innocent. I addressed him only because he posted in my thread. However, when I do the search for new posts, as I have many times each day for years, I see a myriad of posts about how horrible the United States is, but virtually never see threads complaining about the actions of any other country. Walter as one specific person may indeed have such threads, but they sure never seem to come up in the new posts search. As I say, I did not start this post to refer to him in particular, but A2K liberals in general.

As for your observation that I rarely start or post in such threads about abuses by other countries, it's an irrelevancy. I pretty much never start threads complaining about the abuses of any country. Generally, I start threads about science, film, music, etc. Contrary to what you imply, it's perfectly proper for me to defend my own country without attacking other countries. As for what I actually care about personally, you have no information on that topic.

Also, I find it rather sad that you can't respond to someone else's political opinions without trotting out the F word.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Contrary to what you imply, it's perfectly proper for me to defend my own country without attacking other countries.

... and yet you complain about other people attacking your country without attacking other countries. Hypocrisy?

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You addressed me, Walter Hinteler.

I think now that was done by pupose, because I'm one of ther few posting here under my full and real name.

But even if you want to destroy me with that cheap method, Brandon: my private opinion is the same my opinion here and broadly known.
(And "no", no-one thinks that I'm a radical left - even the conservatives here think me to be more centrist. Otherwise I wouldn't get engaged in Jewish, American and church organisations.)

What I really hurt me - and that's why I think it was done by purpose . is that you wrote
- I would create a virtual career here,
and
- insult your country.

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White House Under Fire for Human Rights Abuses Again

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