God real? or Man-made?!

You mean, as opposed to the chances of a god just falling into place? Or did some other god create him?

Yeah, let's see some stat's on astronomers! (Rather than what you heard someplace)

read somewhere.

my, aren't we rather abrasive tonight eorl?

Jesus says he is the alpha and the omega; just another controversial statement with mixed messages.

I do believe the simplistic sarcasm started with YOU tomasso!

So did this god just fall together or what?

I am simply a believer.

I cannot equate the existance of God with chance.




Sorry that my simple sarcasm set you off.

I'm not sure what it is you find abrasive. I don't see that I've been any more rude than you.

"Chance" is that big lie theists use to straw man atheists and then pretend the odds are on their side.

Your argument is no more than the classic argument from incredulity.

"I can't understand how things work....therefore a magic god is required. Where did he come from? That's magic too."

In essence "believers" want the comfort of "closure" yet all "boundary science" points to "open ended reality". Atoms give way to subatomic particles with probabalistic locations. Matter and energy are interchangeable. The universe gives way to the possibility of multiverses.

This yearning for "comfort of closure" may depend on perceptual evolution. For example consider the celebrated "moon illusion" (the moon appearing bigger at the horizon) This depends on the perception of the sky as a flattened ceiling above our heads. Our "perception" cannot cope with an "infinite sky".

By extrapolation, the creation of an athropomorphic "God" by man is a cognitive/perceptual "defense mechanism" against the fear of the void.
We want the comfort of a roof over our heads and a loving parent to shield us from the unknown. The species with the longest period of "childhood" or parental dependency simplistically extends such dependency into what should be "adulthood".

I view God as simply our Creator, not good nor bad. The problems we have on Earth against other humans are created by ourselves. Humans killing each other is like animals killing each other. We don't ask why God lets animals be killed by humans or other animals, do we?

Who created God? It is the story of the hen and egg. Well, to me, there must be a starting point somewhere, otherwise nothing remains nothing.

I am not sure that believing in God is comforting, as in some religions, they say if you don't do what God tells you to do, you go to hell. That is far from comforting.

I believe in God because I don't have an answer to my questions (our existence, etc.). I don't see any reason not to believe.

cello, The reason why you can't find the answer for your existence is simple; your parents had sex, and "bingo!" You're looking too far; most things in life are simple.

All religions and gods were created by men to control other humans; nothing more, nothing less. That's the reason why there are so many errors and omissions in dogma.

Just live a "happy" life; that's the main key to our life.

fresco-

Are you saying everyone has this need of closure or just those who have failed to become adults? What proportion, if any, of the population should
have reached adulthood and obviously have failed to. Roughly.

And do you think all proclaimed atheists have no fear of the non-self, the void.

CI, I actually take life very simply, as you said, and the reason I believe in God is that I don't look far.

Spendius,

I am saying that "fear of the void" may be a universal by-product of human cognition within which the "social reality" of religion functions as a major paliative. Atheists recognize and dissent from that particular paliative but may substitute secular idiosyncratic solutions. The state of "self transcendence" or "no-self" may be viewed as a non-secular,non-theistic solution involving "immersion with the void" and hence dissipation of its terrors. Indeed since the "social reality" of the "self" is transcended, the "normal" cognitive state in which "fear" manifests is also left behind. Such "normality" involves "time" and "causality" both of which have been deconstructed in "boundary science".

Given that "the average man" is unlikely to appreciate the implications of boundary science, or perceive the sociolinguistic reality in which he enmeshed, religion in all its ad hoc cultural profusion is likely to persist.

I think I understand that.

It was supposed to make me laugh I assume.

If it was it certainly succeeded.

You should write to Germaine Greer. I don't think she understands "boundary science". Mrs Thatcher neither.

Somebody say that everthing is imagine.. It is not true.. But We ve no power also to create a God.. This passage may give some thoughts on God Power...

.....''The degrees of existence are different. And the worlds of existence are all different.

Because they are all different, a particle from a level of existence which is deeply rooted in existence is as great as a mountain from a level of existence that is less substantial than its level; it contains the mountain.

For example, the faculty of memory, which is the size of a mustard-seed in a head from the Manifest World, takes on an existence the size of a library from the World of Meaning.

And a mirror the size of a fingernail from the external world encompasses a mighty city from the level of the World of Similitudes.

If the memory and the mirror from the external world had possessed consciousness and creative power, they would have been able to bring about endless transformations and activity in the Worlds of Meaning and Similitudes through the power of their minute existences in the external world.

That is to say, when existence is firmly established, power increases; what is only a little becomes like much.

Especially after existence has attained to complete stability, if it is disengaged and detached from materiality and is not restricted, then only a partial manifestation of it will be able to transform many worlds of other less substantial levels of existence.

Thus, And God's is the highest similitude, the Glorious Maker of the universe is Necessarily Existent.

That is, His existence is essential, it is pre-eternal, it is post-eternal, its non-existence is impossible, its cessation is impossible; it is the most firmly rooted, the most sound, the strongest, and the most perfect of the levels of existence. In relation to His existence, the other levels of existence are like extremely pale shadows.''... -Bediuzzaman Said Nursi.. 20. letter-

cello, I also try to live a "happy life," but without believing in any god(s).

It keeps my life very simple.

CI, I think believing in God, a god or gods is a totally personal thing. It represents a person's view of himself and of the world around him. There is no right or wrong, no better or worse, and it cannot be explained nor imposed. I mean, it can be imposed or forbidden, but we know what people do.

So I am wondering of children born in religious families, if they would have followed the religion of their parents had they not been "given" it from the beginning. It could have been nice if children are left "free" to choose a religion, if any, until they are able to decide. Let's say, a person cannot have a religion until he is 18 years old. Then I think the religion would be meaningful to the person because it is him who has chosen to adhere to it.

cello, I understand that totally, because all my siblings and their children are christians.

Oh oh, are you the black sheep of the house, CI?

Yup! I was the "black sheep" in more ways than one. LOL I also did poorly in grade school, while all my siblings were over-achievers. However, I married a buddhist with an excellent scholastic record; graduated with honors from high school, nursing school, and college. Both our sons graduated cum laude (older son, summa cum laude).

Oh well, CI, you can't be and have everything in life, can you?

Congratulations on your sons. What mean those Latin words, by the way? And what did they study?