Rainsoft Info

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Hello All!

I have been reading this forum for some time, but I finally needed to post so I just joined today. Since we bought our current home, 3.5 years ago, we have needed a water treatment system. We live in rural Wake county, NC and are on a community well. Shortly after we purchased our home a salesman, for a water company I don't recall the name of, came by and tested our water. I don't recall now the exact numbers but we have hard water and dissolved iron. Not to mention the occasional particulate matter. The prices were simply not feasible given my financial situation, and here we are today 3.5 years later still coping with the water problems and buying a lot of bottled water. Early this week my wife came across a Rainsoft system for free on craigslist. I have been researching systems off and on for 3 years so I figured what the heck if nothing else I'll have the tanks and the salt container and go from there. So I picked it up earlier this week from the guy's house in Raleigh and it's sitting on my garage floor as we speak.

OK, enough with the personal history, here come the questions. Info on the Rainsoft systems is pretty limited on the net, so I am not real clear on what I have, how to determine what is in working order, how to connect it all up, if there are aftermarket parts and/or supplies I should or should not use, what additional items I should purchase, etc. To begin with I figure I should put a whole house particulate filter in front of it all. From the paperwork the guy gave me with it I seem to have; "Water Filter with A-8 Valve", and a "Water Treatment System with Ion - X100", I have installation instructions for an "Automatic Iron Sulphur Filter F 8 Valve", and owners manual for "Water Treatment System 14-Day Timer". Of course nothing is marked so I'm not sure what's what, how to test any of it for function, and in what order to hook up the different devices.

I have experience in mechanics, robotics, electronics, and hydraulics, so although I have no experience with water treatment systems, with a little advice and guidance and some studying and diligence, hopefully I will be able to figure this out, get it running properly, and have better water quality for myself and my family.

Thanks in advance for any help!

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Nice antiques!

The softener and some red out salt should make your water better.
Set the iron filter aside, you may need it for parts.

From your pictures I think the smaller tank with the 14 day timer on it is the softener.
It requires the salt tank (the trash can looking thing with the black lid).

The inlet is center rear and the outlet on the left turning to the rear.
Since the units are laying on there side you may have resin up in the valve.
Once you get it hooked up DO NOT PLUG IT IN!
Let water run through it to draw any resin out of the valve.

Drop me an email once you have gotten this far and I'll walk you through the start up and trouble shooting the system.

Is there a local RainSoft dealer in your area? You may need some extra help with this project.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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gunpit,

There is always the risk of buying a water treatment system that is used (or even getting it for free-Uhm!?).

1. It may not be properly sized to handle your particular water quality issues.
2. Since it is a timer, it may not work effectively according to the variable number of gallons used on a daily basis. Tank size, gallons used, timer settings all have to be coordinated.
3. It may need to be sanitized to remove microorganisms acquired in previous service.
4. Maybe it was 'given' away due to mechanical, electrical or quality issues.
5. The resins may be shot and need to be replaced.
6. Troubleshooting can be difficult without knowing its history or how many problems it had, what kind of repairs were attempted, and the previous owner's level of maintenance ability.

Fortunately it is worth every penny invested and if it doesn't provide the expectant results, then next time invest in a quality piece of equipment from that company or another after doing research.

Doing research on the net can be daunting when listening to everyone brag about their own equipment. Instead look at the other side of the coin and see who has trouble with a particular company or make. Just search using a company name.

http://www.complaints.com/
http://www.ripoffreport.com/default.asp

I wish you good luck with your choice of water treatment and the direction you have decided to go.

Andy Christensen

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H2O_Man & Andy

Thanks very much for the excellent info. I have been reading numerous posts here, as well as searching the internet for info. As I don't know much about this systems history, I really agree with Andy's recommendation to sanitize the system, but I'm not sure what to use on the media. According to the paperwork that came with the system the media is the Ion X100. From what I read in one of your posts H2O_Man this media is pretty bullet proof. Any suggestions for sanitizing it?

You suggested that I not use the iron filter, H2O_Man, and from what I have read there seem to be pretty good reasons for that recommendation. From what I read, this Ion X100 resin will likely be able to handle the iron as long I add some iron out to the brine tank once in a while, and the health hazards associated with the potassium permagnate used to regenerate the greensand media in the iron filter are pretty nasty. I will take your advise and set the iron filter aside. Perhaps in the future, if we have any lingering issues with iron, I will replace the greensand media with Brin media since my pH and alkalinity match the specs for that media and we have no problems with sulphur.

I also read good things you had to say about the RS tanks but nothing good about the RS control valves H2O_Man. You and many other knowledgable folks all praise the Fleck control valves. I particularly like what I saw in the 2510SE, but I saw a post by you, H2O_Man, stating that changing out the RS valve for a Fleck would require replacement of the RS Brine tank. Can you perhaps elaborate on that please?

Finally the one issue I have yet to resolve is how I will handle the backwash after the regeneration. The system will be in the crawl space beneath the house (no floor drain), and we are on a septic system and I still don't know if it is safe to dump the backwash into the septic system, especially since I will likely need to use rust out once every 4 months.

This really a great forum! I've been reading about softeners off and on for several years, but I've learned more from reading this forum over the last few weeks than I did in all those previous years. Thanks again for all the great info.

Colin Ward

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gunplt wrote:

I really agree with Andy's recommendation to sanitize the system, but I'm not sure what to use on the media. According to the paperwork that came with the system the media is the Ion X100. From what I read in one of your posts H2O_Man this media is pretty bullet proof. Any suggestions for sanitizing it?

The best way is to have the softener hooked up and let the system draw a mixture of brine and sodium hypochlorite from the salt tank during regeneration. You would not want to introduce any of this water to your household plumbing. Andy may offer another suggestion.

gunplt wrote:

I also read good things you had to say about the RS tanks but nothing good about the RS control valves H2O_Man. You and many other knowledgable folks all praise the Fleck control valves. I particularly like what I saw in the 2510SE, but I saw a post by you, H2O_Man, stating that changing out the RS valve for a Fleck would require replacement of the RS Brine tank. Can you perhaps elaborate on that please?

The 100% Fleck valve 2510SE is awesome. The valve Fleck makes for RainSoft (Private label) is not so good.
The Fleck brine tank uses a larger diameter brine line and is available with overflow prevention.

gunplt wrote:

Finally the one issue I have yet to resolve is how I will handle the backwash after the regeneration. The system will be in the crawl space beneath the house (no floor drain), and we are on a septic system and I still don't know if it is safe to dump the backwash into the septic system, especially since I will likely need to use rust out once every 4 months.

The water sent to the drain is under pressure and will pump up and over to a septic line.
You will need an air gap and you do not want the drain line to be longer than 30 feet.
The shorter the better. The backwash will not harm your septic tank.

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Hi. I purchased a RainSoft unit in Charlotte, NC about a year ago, and we recently brought it with us when we moved up to Indiana. The unit that we have is a silver series and is only about 2 feet tall, since it was going to be put in a crawl space in NC. Well the guy came out to reinstall our system last week and immediately told me he couldn't install that unit and that it would back up every 2 weeks. The next day he called me saying that he talked to the owner and they would let me trade mine in and pay $4000 for a new unit or $3000 for a refurbished unit. Clearly, after a $5000+ investment last year, I wasn't going for this. Rather, I called the Rainsoft dealer in NC and the informed me that the water softener unit will work, however the iron filter will not work since we are on a well. But she assured me that the softener itself will work. I'm not able to find the exact model number anywhere on my paperwork, so I don't know what system I have. Only that it is silver series, and smaller. Is this a compact system that will work for a whole house? We had it on our 2000 SF house and it worked fine. However the guy up here said it would only be used for apartments, and that it would be regenerating too often. Can anyone help me? I feel like someone is giving me false information and I want to make sure I don't get a raw deal here. THANKS!

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Let's look at what you have and what you need first ~

Could you post a picture of what you have and, is it possible for you to post
the H2O test results for both the old NC location and your new IN location.

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I suggest it may be this model or another similar model. Interestingly, it too was sold in NC. I sell full sized equipment for installation in crawl spaces.

What a RIPOFF. $5000.00!! If I sold the same size with an Autotrol, Clack or Fleck control valve the delivered price would be $450-600 anywhere in the lower 48 States. I don't know how the sellers of that stuff sleep. They must not know anything but what RS tells them or they do know and only want the money they steel from their customers. IMO Western Resources Intl (Hydroquad), Rain Soft and Ecowater are the biggest ripoffs there are. Also IMO, most Kinetico dealers run a close second.

indianawitt, to correctly size equipment, you need a water analysis, then with the number of people and bathrooms in the house, you come up with the volume (in cu ft) of resin needed for a the best regeneration schedule based on the salt dose efficiency and K of capacity to give you a once per week (on average) regeneration.

H2O_MAN and ANDY disagree about the number of bathrooms but... that's like buying a vehicle for your family based on the fuel mileage without asking how many seats it has. Or like buying a house without asking how many bathrooms or bedrooms it has....

Anyway, don't buy anything from Rain Soft.

http://qualitywaterassociates.com/images/RSknowlton.JPG

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Gary Slusser wrote:

indianawitt, to correctly size equipment, you need a water analysis, then with the number of people and bathrooms in the house, you come up with the volume (in cu ft) of resin needed for a the best regeneration schedule based on the salt dose efficiency and K of capacity to give you a once per week (on average) regeneration.

That's a good start, but you also need to factor in Dish and Cloth washers as well as other water using appliances.
The make-up of your raw H2O and the estimated weekly usage are required to properly size a softener, but you also must
take into account all treatment equipment that is used ahead of the softener before you can come up with the correct size.

For folks on a budget, I recommend system upgraded or built with Fleck 2510SE control valves - metered on softeners,
and for those that want to invest in the very best full service H2O equipment available, I recommend EcoWater systems.

HTH ~

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Hi guys! Thanks for the replies. After two no show appointments I finally have the guy here to install the system.
Gary, your post makes me ill that I paid that much for the system. I was suckered in and I knew we paid too much, but I didn't realize we paid nearly 9 times too much! But yes, the one you showed is the system that I have, plus the under the sink filter.
H20_MAN, I don't know that the water results were down there, but I think last time he said something about it being 15 up here. I will write below what was written on the sheet when they installed it in North Carolina:

2 ppm.
Number of residents 2 * 500 gallons/week = 1000
Washing machine and dishwasher each add 250 a piece = 500

I don't know much about all of the softener systems, so I'm not able to tell you much about my system. I do know that the woman in NC told me that I can use the softener, but that the carbon filter won't work since we're on a well. I do know that the other system regenerated every night, I think it was set for 3 am. We never heard it, nor did we ever have any problems with that system. I can only hope that he installs this correctly and we have a properly working system. It's sad but I just don't have faith that it will happen. I wish it didn't come to that, because when we bought it we were so excited about it and loved it.

Side note, as I was writing this, he finished the installation. He charged me nearly double what they quoted ($300), and he didn't even leave me with a $2 bag of salt! He has it set up to run every night and said we're going to go through a lot of salt. That's fine with me, at least we got the thing running. If (and when) we have trouble with the system I will be sure to get back online and ask for your help. Everyone has been so great and responsive - thanks for your help!

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I got into this business in 1987 due to rip offs as you've suffered. An outfit like Rain Soft and Ecowater, Hydroquad, sold a softener, RO and soap package to a 'mentally' challenged couple that I knew and put a second mortgage on their house to pay for it. I really don't like people that take advantage of others and I do what I can to prevent it happening to others.

H20_MAN worked with Rain Soft and now Ecowater, IMO two of the biggest rip offs there are. Here he tells people to buy from Ecowater while doing his best to keep them away from Rain Soft, yet he won't say he's an Ecowater dealer or was a Rain Soft dealer in the past.... or if he wasn't, how he "installs and services" those brands without being a dealer.

There was someone here a few weeks ago mentioning paying $7900 for a Rain Soft through HD or Lowe's. She called me and I gave her ideas of how to get her money back while telling her I didn't think it was possible. She called me last week telling me she did get it back but it was only due to getting fairly high up in HD and that person got the RS folks to refund her money. She thanked me for helping and wanted to tell me what happened. About an hour ago she called and ordered a new (1.5 cuft [48k]) softener from me, for $688 delivered.

I hope your equipment works well. You might want to visit my web site and look up Sizing and see if you can't reduce your salt use some.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

H20_MAN worked with Rain Soft and now Ecowater, IMO two of the biggest rip offs there are. Here he tells people to buy from Ecowater while doing his best to keep them away from Rain Soft, yet he won't say he's an Ecowater dealer or was a Rain Soft dealer in the past.... or if he wasn't, how he "installs and services" those brands without being a dealer.

Are you going to publish a book about my life in the H2O industry or are you just stalking me?

I would love to hang out and chat, but I have a few service calls and salt deliveries this evening.

I service equipment that I and others sell.

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Salt deliveries.... another rip off.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Salt deliveries.... another rip off.

Should I tell her to rise from her wheelchair and do it herself?

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Absolutely not, buy her the salt and deliver it free of charge.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Absolutely not, buy her the salt and deliver it free of charge.

That's exactly what I have been doing for years.
It's called customer service.

Salt delivery is not a rip off it's a value added service that is available to my clients that request
the service and they are happy to pay for this service because they do not wish to do it themselves.

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And it is a very expensive service.

Probably SOLD as you twist arms to sell a glorified Kenmore/GE/Whirlpool/mortonsalt.com (Ecowater) softener for $3500 and up. That's after selling the twice as expensive Rainsoft softener prior to the Ecowater stuff and now you've branched off with your other web site selling the Fleck SE control valve.

Which model is that, Fleck makes many models using the SE timer? On your web sites I see pictures of the 2510.

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You and your comments are insignificant.

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And I think insignificant me is all in your head.

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I was merely looking for some help. I did not intend for this to be a forum for you to argue.

I wanted to note that the gentleman installed the system but we now have a bunch of water on the floor. It seems there is a little white valve coming out of the unit that we put the salt in. Can you tell me if you know about this? It looks like it's a place for overflow water to run out of the system. The problem is, it runs onto the floor and all over the rug. I have called the service manager to see if he is able to tell me what is going on. I don't believe we ever had a problem with this at our old house, as the softener was outside and the overflow would have just gone into the yard. However, I need to know if this is something that needs to be capped off, or a line put on it to drain it.

Thanks.

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