Is that your best price?

I've never owned an expensive car, I like Corollas and they do what I need them to, get me to work and back.

I don't think there's a lot of negotiation room with a car like that.

That said, I was in sales for a while, and hated it. It was because of that haggling factor, and as you said so well, being treated like a camel seller. It felt so stressful and argumentative. Some people were sure you were screwing them, and there wasn't any way to get them to believe they were being treated fairly.

I'd like to hear from some people who work at car dealerships and hear how they feel about it.

To be honest, every time I've bought a car, it started out in my mind being a nice experience, getting a new car...yay....but ended up being a really unpleasant one. Mostly because the sales person acted like it was some kind of a battle. I know some would say the sales guy is under pressure to make a sale, but it's really counterproductive to make the customer feel like ****.

Green Witch wrote:


Of course I do! By the time I get ready to buy a new car/exchange my old,
I have done my homework thoroughly with www.edmunds.com and
www.kbb.com (Kelly Blue Book). Then I start out sending emails or call
the dealer and start off with my old car to see what deal I can get for
the trade-in. Once this is done, I work on the price for the new car, and
if they won't budge on the price, I start working on the accessories that
should be included in the price, resp. added on for no extra charges.

So far, I have always gotten a good deal to my satisfaction. Dealers
have quite a good profit margin and I am usually a loyal customer, so
this should account for something.

Never pay full price!!

Odds are that "nice young man" is a trained commission salesperson.

Question: why would somebody who's income is a percentage of the dealer's profit voluntarilly do anything to lessen the profit and thereby lessen the salesperson's income?

Answer: not bloody likely that's ever gonna happen, so don't bother even thinking about the possibility.

Since you're paying cash - and I assume there's no trade-in involved - you're pretty much in the driver's seat. What the dealer will accept depends pretty much on market conditions. If the vehicle you're considering is relatively high demand, the dealer is likely to pass on an offer amounting to a large discount, since if a prospect doesn't buy it at X price right now, there's every reason for the dealer to expect a more acceptable offer will come along shortly. That said, the object of a sales encounter is to close a sale then-and-there; a prospect who leaves without buying is still shopping, and there's plenty of competition out there ready to make a sale.

I'm gonna guess your "nice young man" really did not see you as a serious, committed, ready-and-able-to-buy-now purchaser, and rather than take the effort to determine your wants, needs, triggers, and resources, the kid just got rid of you in anticipation of stumbling across a less effort-intensive sale. If the kid was working for me, I'd either fire the lazy twit or invest in some training for him; letting a prospect walk off without a sale makes neither him nor me any money ... and neither will playing "best price" games on the phone.

If you want "the best price", bear in mind that's gonna be what it takes to sell the vehicle - then-and-there. Its up to you to control the sales encounter. Do some research ... particularly now, with the resources available on the 'net, its easy enough to get a pretty good idea of actual dealer costs (which frankly have little to do with "Invoice"; for instance, the dealer very most likely pays interest for every day that vehicle sits unsold on his lot), market conditions for the vehicle type you're after (that whole "supply and demand" thing), which specific make/model vehicles meet your specs, and go from there.

Determine realistically what likely you will have to spend for what you want, find what you want, then present a bona fide offer for that specific, sitting-there-right-now vehicle at some level less than your max and be prepared to negotiate from that point. Make it clear from the outset you CAN buy now (no "I have to check with my husbnd/wife/partner who's not available right now"), and make it clear that if you are presented with a deal you find satisfactory, you are prepared to and WILL buy that vehicle sitting right there right now. Make the dealer do a little work to earn your business - right there, right then.

Thanks everyone. Timber, I know "the nice young man" is a commissioned salesperson, I've been there done that. I liked the fact that he didn't use any of the standard sales schtick on me. The vehicle I want is definitely in the desirable, easy to sell category - it's a Toyota and I will have to wait a couple of weeks to get exactly what I want. It's not like I want a GM monster truck (I could have my pick of those). I never play games - I told him the truck is my choice, no trade in and I've got the funds. The only thing I implied was that I might check dealerships in a more desperate neighborhood, but Toyota people don't seem cowered by such threats. I will check out CJ's websites and read everyone's comments again before surging ahead.

Chai, as for the experience -so far so good . The worst part is when I have to pry my own fingers off the money.

What's the story here about "camel sellers?"

What makes that Toyota (or any other brand) that you hafta wait for a better choice than some other make/model already sitting in some other dealer's inventory? You're going to be using the truck's capabilities for business, not the truck's looks or name. If you're looking for the best tool for the job - in this case a work truck - look at tool stores, not toy stores. A large-volume dealer, most likely one in/near the industrial districts of a major metro area, with a whole buncha solid-color (mostly white) work-configured trucks sitting on the lot (or frequently sitting by themselves at a satellite lot separate from the bright, flashy retail lot) is gonna be the place you're gonna get the best deal for a work truck. On the other hand, if you wanna make a fashion statement ...

my only question is why are you using your money? Its a business expense and paying your cash up front and then expensing it as rolling stock later is not to your best tax advantage. Do you have to get rid of some money at a years end? so it doesnt go to you as ordinary income (sub s) or to your business (sub c)??

Id deal through my bank who already gives me preferred rates due to my history and they hold our payroll and accounts. They provide a very good leasing arrangement that takes it off me and they even arrange for the trucks to not get "penalized" if my milages go over the agreed yearly terms set in the leases.AND, if anything is wrong, the Bank deals with Ford, not me.

I had a Ford F450 with a Caterpillar diesel from the original Cat /Ford partnership that onlycontinues on 2 models anymore. It was a great ride but it sucked fuel like a milkshake. I termed the lease and didnt do a buyout and suffered no reprisals from the bank.

OK OK I do want a certain color to go with our logo, but that's not the problem- plus part of my job is to make a fashion statement. I actually want a very basic no frills model, partly because it's all I need and partly because our workers are going to drive it. It's easy to get the truck with all the features. I know GM and Ford have basic trucks clogging up the lots, but I want what I think is the best value. We've found that of all the trucks we've owned and worked with the Toyotas just keep going. We got over 300.000 miles on the last one and still sold it for $1200. I know I could drive north or south of my home and barter better in a metro area, but I like the idea that some local rural guy (the sales person) will get my money and maybe spend it around here. Also, if I have a problem I'm only 20 minutes from the place I bought the thing. I'm sure he will meet any price I'm offered else where, it's just doing the leg work and haggling that gets me down. For me it's always the dilemma of my money or my life.

I never haggle with car dealers. I usually decide on what I want, check reviews and pricing guides on-line and then start visiting dealers. Every time I go in I tell them exactly which options I want and ask them for their best price. I make sure I tell them I'll be visiting other dealers and doing the same. They are usually pretty good at giving me decent prices. Once I visit 5 or 6 dealers I usually go back to the dealers that gave me the 2nd and 3rd lowest prices and try to get them to beat the lowest price. If they do then I buy from them right there.

Farmerman, the money thing gets a little complicated on this end. Bascially we have no debt and want no debt. I've paid cash for everything in my life, including my farm. I then pay myself back including the interest I would have paid to a lending institution. It's worked very well and has enabled me to live a mostly free life in which I only have to work 6-7 months out of the year. It's not perfect, but it's comfortable. Our only headache is health insurance, but that's a whole different thread.

Makes good sense. I did imply I was going to shop around, which I indicated more because I wasn't ready to hand over a deposit that day. Now you've all got me convinced that price comparison is the way to go.

Probably only 1 out of 30-40 people don't negotiate, if that. Of course they're not going to give you their lowest price upfront...

You can even email a few dealers with the same model and the internet sales department may be more aggressive. And like CJ said, you can look up reports as to what the average price paid per model is in your zip code through Edmunds. You should be able to find out via the internet what a fair paying price is for the model.

Take an offer, go around to a couple different stores, and keep having them lower their price.

Thanks Slappy (I was waiting for you to show up here before plowing ahead)

I was just thinking.

Don't the dealerships make a lot of their money off the finance charges?

So, if you tell them you're paying cash, you letting me know they're not going to get all that interest income.

fishin - that was very useful info....part of this "haggling" process is that I wouldn't know what to say...

However, question for both fishin and slappy...all this driving around visiting dealership, dealing with the sales people...how much would this save you?

Saying "I'm paying cash" doesn't mean sh!t. You're right Chai, they usually make more if you finance through the dealer. They can mark the rate up usually up to about 3 points, and the bank pays them the full reserve upfront. Plus cash buyers aren't eligible for as many aftermarket products they offer, like GAP insurance, Life & Disability insurance, & it's just harder to sell any aftermarket products to a cash buyer. People financing are looking at what their payment is with extras included, so it's easier for them to swallow an extra $10-20/month vs. paying $1000 flat out for a product.

How much you save depends on the car and the market...I've never worked at a new car dealer, just used. I know some brands don't budge as much as others.

I'm impressed with how much info I've gotten from the sites CJ mentioned. I've used Edmunds & Bluebook to check out used prices when I've sold cars, but never for new purchases. I've been able to contact dealers within my state and they will send me back price quotes. This will at least give me the option of going back to my salesperson and asking him if they will meet a price. I won't feel like I'm nickle and dimeing the guy if I give him a fair chance to compete.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. I wouldn't mind asking them to meet a price, it's that nickel and diming thing...


yeah slappy, I see all the ways dealerships try to make an extra buck. that's what I'm talking about when I say it becomes unpleasant. Like when I bought my last car, it was in 2000, and being a corolla I know it's last at least 10 years or 12 years.
After I decide I'm gonna buy this what, $15,000 at the time car, they send me to the sales managers office for the financing. I only needed to finance $10K. The sm drags out this binder of some sort and I'm thinking he's going to show me something important, and all it is his way of way of introducing the subject of me leasing the car. Yeah right, I'm going to lease a toyota corolla. This is where I don't have time for bullshit, and I just tell him "I'm not going to lease, I'm just going to buy it, because I'm going to keep it a long time"
That's when I get this really fake puzzled look from hima and this "but, I don't understand...could you explain to me why you wouldn't want to lease this car, and turn in for another brand new one in 4 years?"
That's when I said "I don't need you to understand anything, and if you're going to keep talking about leasing, I'm leaving"

So, I financed the $10K, and about 2 months later just paid the damn thing off. It's running like a top.

I hate paying interest. like greenwitch said, that's money I'm not earning for myself.

When the Lady Diane bought her new car 3 yrs ago we negotiated for 3 days and then finally went to the dealership to pick it up. When we got there, we dealt with a totally new person who kept talking about the great financing deal they had and I kept saying "cash". Finally the sales person said chrysler was offering a $1,000 discount to those that used their financing so I said "um sure, ok we want to finance" when the payment book came, the first payment we made was the total amount of the loan.

Technically if you finance and invest the money, you'll earn more interest than you would have paid over the life of the loan.