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On no longer using the word "believe!"

 
 
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 01:24 pm
It is my opinion that one of the best things humans who like to debate religion and philosophy could do…

…would be to eliminate the words "believe" and "belief" from their discussions.

The words simply cause more problems than they are worth…if for no other reason than that they mean so many different things to different people.

And the expression "believe in…" ought never to be used.

Fact is, there are other ways of expressing just about every notion that contains those words…and using the "other ways" will almost always make the notion clearer to understand…and will be, at very least, a more exact depiction of what is being expressed.

Discussion?

(I would like to thank in advance the people who will reply using the words "believe" or "belief.")
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 5,538 • Replies: 118
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 01:25 pm
And of course, I would like specifically to exempt the term "belief system" from this course of action.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 01:27 pm
I believe you are, for once, right, Frank.
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ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 01:37 pm
Isn't opinion just a synonym for 'belief'?

I think your idea is self-contradictory.
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Glory
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 02:54 pm
Ill trample and dismantle your rap philosophy
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 04:32 pm
Re: On no longer using the word "believe!"
Frank Apisa wrote:
It is my opinion that one of the best things humans who like to debate religion and philosophy could do…

…would be to eliminate the words “believe” and “belief” from their discussions.

The words simply cause more problems than they are worth…if for no other reason than that they mean so many different things to different people.

And the expression “believe in…” ought never to be used.

Fact is, there are other ways of expressing just about every notion that contains those words…and using the “other ways” will almost always make the notion clearer to understand…and will be, at very least, a more exact depiction of what is being expressed.

Discussion?

(I would like to thank in advance the people who will reply using the words “believe” or “belief.”)


Please explain your opinion better.
0 Replies
 
Foley
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Feb, 2007 05:55 pm
No, I disagree with you completely. I believe (lolz pwnd) that it is the best word to use, simply because when it comes to religion and philosophy, everything will eventually boil down to your perspective and morals- what you believe. Some Atheists sometimes like to use this as a back-asswards way of attacking the more pious group of debaters, but really any moral you hold is what you believe.

The word believe is simply what it is: what you think is true with little or no evidence behind it- because you simply can't back up your morals- they are what you believe.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 07:50 am
Foley wrote:
No, I disagree with you completely. I believe (lolz pwnd) that it is the best word to use, simply because when it comes to religion and philosophy, everything will eventually boil down to your perspective and morals- what you believe. Some Atheists sometimes like to use this as a back-asswards way of attacking the more pious group of debaters, but really any moral you hold is what you believe.

The word believe is simply what it is: what you think is true with little or no evidence behind it- because you simply can't back up your morals- they are what you believe.


That is my point, for crissake!

Instead of saying "I believe there are no gods"...I am saying "…there are other ways of expressing just about every notion that contains those words…and using the "other ways" will almost always make the notion clearer to understand…and will be, at very least, a more exact depiction of what is being expressed. "

You are saying the same thing…but suggesting that you are disagreeing? What are you talking about?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 07:52 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Isn't opinion just a synonym for 'belief'?

I think your idea is self-contradictory.


Why?

Do you not see the difference between "I believe in God" and "It is my opinion that there is a God?"

If you don't...just go to any thread where a theist is debating and suggest that he/she is merely saying "It is my opinion that there is a God."

See what happens.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 07:54 am
Glory wrote:
Ill trample and dismantle your rap philosophy


Sometime soon???
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 08:56 am
I don't believe I'll tackle this one, Frank.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 09:11 am
To Edgar and Snood...I repeat my earlier remark: "I would like to thank in advance the people who will reply using the words "believe" or "belief."

I knew I could count on youse guys!

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 09:47 am
I was first. Credit me with speed, if nothing else.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 10:10 am
edgarblythe wrote:
I was first. Credit me with speed, if nothing else.


Done!

Twisted Evil
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 12:42 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
Isn't opinion just a synonym for 'belief'?

I think your idea is self-contradictory.


Why?

Do you not see the difference between "I believe in God" and "It is my opinion that there is a God?"

If you don't...just go to any thread where a theist is debating and suggest that he/she is merely saying "It is my opinion that there is a God."

See what happens.


My opion is that there is no difference between "I believe in God" and "It is my opinion that there is a God?".

I qualify as a "theist" because it is my opinion that there is a god although my opinion system certainly wouldn't qualify as Christian or any orthodox set of opinions.

It seems like you are looking for a fight over words with a certain type of person. My suggestion is that a fight over words is rarely productive.

If you want to start a fight, at least choose a topic that has a little substance.

((... I hope I get credit since I answered without using the taboo word.)
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 01:09 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
It seems like you are looking for a fight over words with a certain type of person. My suggestion is that a fight over words is rarely productive.


I believe Frank is bored.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 01:12 pm
Frank.

You are on to a winner !

We all need to realise that we live by conjecture and confidence levels, not "beliefs" and "facts". Of course some non-controversial aspects of "physicality" are sufficiently permanent relative to our lifespans that we call them "facts", but in essence all is in flux at various rates of change.

A nice little anecdote concerns the town of Sevenoaks in the U.K.which indeed had seven ancient oak trees on at its centre right up until a mini hurricane in the 80's which uprooted the lot ! I believe seven replacements have been planted to re-establish the etymological status quo.
0 Replies
 
Foley
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 03:05 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:

That is my point, for crissake!

Instead of saying "I believe there are no gods"...I am saying "…there are other ways of expressing just about every notion that contains those words…and using the "other ways" will almost always make the notion clearer to understand…and will be, at very least, a more exact depiction of what is being expressed. "

You are saying the same thing…but suggesting that you are disagreeing? What are you talking about?


No. I agree with your definition of the word, but disagree that there are better ways to say it, because there aren't. 'Believe' means what it means, and there is no better way or reason to replace it. This debate is pointless!
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 03:20 pm
Tell me another way to say this statement...

Quote:

I believe that slavery is morally wrong.
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Foley
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Feb, 2007 03:23 pm
Quote:
It is my opinion that slavery is morally wrong.


However, they mean the exact same thing- so the debate has no real point. It is just a word, and if you think less of people for using it, then you are simply a fool.
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