Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

george may be in possession of a sneaking suspicion that some of us think that a film such as this one might be about as valuable a contribution to culture and the human mind as, say, voodoo manuals in every hotel room.

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Attempting to read between the lines can often result in a bad headache.

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Garry Wills on the film... http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17026

Quote:

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Wills got it right.

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Howdy Haz...yes, Wills is a smart one, always worth reading.

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The Willis review follows up my statement regarding a "How To Film for Scourging and Crucifixion."

Gibson stands to personally gain 100M net from the film as he is the sole producer. Studios are rushing Christian themed material into production to try and scoop up some profit by his example. Mel's comment, "Be careful what you wish for." You interpret that any way you want but I believe the motivation behind the film is more mercinary that Mel would want you to believe. We all have to believe in something. Right? Incidentally, from past records, after "Titanic" came "Pearl Harbor," another love story framed by a disaster, and it flopped at the box office. "Judas" the TV movie was a dismal failure. It's been put forth that "Passion" was made as a "personal" vision and that the controversy drew audiences just as much as the subject matter. The box office in this case doubles as the money changing tables -- Christmas brings a lot of change into the vendors pockets and Easter needs a boast. The faithful cannot be converted.

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Another one bites the dust!
the score: Passion 2, viewers 0

Quote:

Pastor Dies Watching 'Passion of Christ'

BELO HORIZONTE, Brazil (Reuters) - A Brazilian pastor died of an apparent heart attack while watching the Mel Gibson film "The Passion of the Christ," witnesses say.

Jose Geraldo Soares, a 43-year-old Presbyterian pastor, had reserved two movie theaters at a Belo Horizonte shopping mall on Sunday afternoon to see the film with his family and the congregations of two local churches.

But halfway through the movie, Soares' wife noticed that he was no longer awake. A doctor who was also watching the film tended to Soares, but the priest was already dead.

"He was calmly watching the movie next to his wife," said Amauri Costa, a family friend who also attended Soares' funeral on Monday.

Soares is at least the second person to die while watching "The Passion," which opened in Brazil on Friday. Peggy Scott, 56, died of a heart attack on Feb. 25 in Wichita, Kansas while watching film's climactic crucifixion scene.

The film, which was praised by Catholic leaders in Brazil as a faithful depiction of events in the Bible, has been criticized by many for its violent and bloody portrayal of Christ's final hours.

Maybe all religious fundamentalists should see this..it would certainly cut down their numbers! Wink

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You think maybe God is trying to send a message?
Two lightning strikes during filming, two deaths while watching, injuries from copy cats unknown.

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This does not take into account what parents took young children to see the film. You don't suppose it could convince some that the God of the Bible is a cruel and irrational God and not to be trusted? The Old Testament states that if a child is disrespectful of the parents it should be put to death. I doubt that none of us would be alive on that one. Of course, that's a theological discussion which should be in that category. As a film, Gibson has produced the blockbuster he wished for but I wonder just how much he is satisfied. I suggest one learn about the Bible from their minister or a theologian. It's like a war movie -- would anyone seriously believe they can learn all they need to know about the fighting of a war from a movie?

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Lightwizard wrote:

This does not take into account what parents took young children to see the film. You don't suppose it could convince some that the God of the Bible is a cruel and irrational God and not to be trusted?

I agree that your comments here have strayed from just considering the film, but you piqued my interest with them, so I'll take a shot at exploring them with you if it's okay.

The first thing I thought when I read this was that a lot of young kids go to a lot of inappropriate movies these days. The difference here (and I'm just pointing out the difference, not making a value judgement regarding it) is that in most cases kids are going to see violent movies in spite of their parents better instincts, while in the case of "The Passion" any parents taking their kids to see it are doing so because of those same instincts. (I'm not sure I'm stating this well.) I agree with you that kids shouldn't be seeing this film due to the extreme, graphic violence. I'm just putting it out there that in this instance parents are choosing to let their kids see that violence because they consider it to be a part of a larger lesson those kids may benefit from. That's not the case when kids go to see "Jason VS. Freddy".

The second thought I had in reading your comments above was that I don't think kids would learn that God is cruel and irrational, but that men sometimes are.

Just my $0.04. ($0.02 X 2)

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I don't believe young children will be able to interpret the Bible from Gibson, a self-appointed theologian, as neatly as you indicate. The cruelty is grossly overstated, especially for a child. I don't believe they will learn what you indicate from a movie. Again, it's like learning about war from a war movie.

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blatham wrote:

george may be in possession of a sneaking suspicion that some of us think that a film such as this one might be about as valuable a contribution to culture and the human mind as, say, voodoo manuals in every hotel room.

You have not, apparently, every heard of the Gideon Society.

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Lightwizard wrote:

I don't believe young children will be able to interpret the Bible from Gibson, a self-appointed theologian, as neatly as you indicate. The cruelty is grossly overstated, especially for a child. I don't believe they will learn what you indicate from a movie. Again, it's like learning about war from a war movie.

I did not "indicate" that children would be able to interpret anything. I simply suggested that the motivation of the parents was to present something of value to the children. (I make no claim as to whether that is what happens.) I simply find it interesting and perhaps meaningful to differentiate this from the circumstances under which most children view extremely violent movies; where there is no interest in redeeming values or gaining anything other than a period of entertainment. I do also wonder whether you have been equally vocal in your criticism of parents who let their children view the "Jason VS. Freddy" type of movies, or if your vocal and repeated concern is unusual in the case of "The Passion".

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The parents who would take an underage child are ignorant and could be ignorant enough not to curtail them from going to see "Jason VS. Freddy" (which is now on cable, incidentally). I wonder how many of them know how to use the V chip? I do not advocate censorship for any reason -- it's Gibson's pretense that he is instructing anyone. There's no getting around that he was instructing a message. I don't believe the message is clear and, incidentally, if you still haven't seen the film you would not know that.

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LW - Can you show me some posts of yours in the Film category where you have previously expressed concerns about parents letting children see violent films?

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There's been no such discussion posted. Why would that matter? If you want my personal opinion, I don't believe parents should allow their children to see R rated films, this one or any other. However, we aren't discussing other films. We are discussing Gibson's film.

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The only reason this movie didn't get an NC-17 was because it is graphic in violence, and it is explicitly and vividly violent, not sex.

Was an NC-17 rating even considered for this movie by the MPAA?

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Lightwizard wrote:

There's been no such discussion posted. Why would that matter? If you want my personal opinion, I don't believe parents should allow their children to see R rated films, this one or any other. However, we aren't discussing other films. We are discussing Gibson's film.

And you've discussed no other violent R-rated films in this forum?

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I don't think the kids seeing this movie are just plain "overcome" by Jesus' life, the fact that he "suffered for our sins" so much as they don't yet know how horribly murderous has been our past. Maybe they can watch the History Channel, or wait until they can handle the truth of violence.

Some people seem to like watching violent movies, much like all Mel Gibson's in recent years (The Patriot!). Maybe he likes it himself, he also likes to make money.

I'm not seeing this movie, but because I've grown much too sensitive. May as well watch some dogs and cats being pulled to pieces who know nothing about "handling" the suffering, if you please. Personally, I think Jesus had power to leave his body, anytime, but maybe he didn't. Who would know?

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Jesus isn't the only one to have left his body -- I was trying desperately while induring this film. Trying to compare it to other R or NC 17 rated films is moot -- this trumps them all. Those who don't want to discuss the movie but want to argue about opinions of the movie are beating a dead Jesus.

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Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

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