Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

george, FYI, I posted this on the previous page.

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I "see" the real violence in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. There has existed violence in real life and fiction that far exceeds what Gibson shows in his film. I really don't understand what all this broo-haha is about. It's a film, for crying out loud!

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LW - Get back to me when you figure out which side of the argument you are on... either I have to "experience" something directly to be allowed to discuss it, or I don't. You make up your mind which it is and then I'll see whether I need to show you where you're wrong. With you clearly not sure anymore what it is you think (other than that you must be right) it's simply impossible for me to know how to respond.

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When dealing with a movie it's quite different than dealing with the reality of current events. To intelligently discuss a film, you have to see the film. You do get reviews to go by but that would mean you aren't forming your own reaction and opinion of the film. It would be the same if you wanted to discuss a painting but had never seen the painting. The comparison to a war in Iraq doesn't work -- they are two entirely different things. Essentially all that is reported about a movie is how much money it's making. Of course, one can't give away the story so there's no point in reporting the story. Films are make believe but in this case after seeing Mel's film, it is doubtful it will make anyone believe. You have no way of knowing or deciding if the film is anti-Semitic, if the gore is overdone or any of the things discussed by those who have seen it. You're playing armchair seance with yourself trying to conjur up all sorts of reasons why someone would pan the film. That may be entertaining as a game for yourself but if means nothing to rest of us. I doubt your intuitive powers are that developed.

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Lightwizard wrote:

When dealing with a movie it's quite different than dealing with the reality of current events. To intelligently discuss a film, you have to see the film.

I am going to write this once more and then leave it to you to understand it or fail to do so:

I am not commenting on the movie. I am commenting on the ridiculous reactions to the movie, the media hype of the movie, the outright hysteria associated with the movie.

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Scrat: I would most likely agree with you completely...
If I hadn't seen the movie. Idea

:wink:

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Scrat: I would most likely agree with you completely...
If I hadn't seen the movie. :wink:

I'm sure your opinion of the movie is valuable and based on good hard reasoning, but how that might change my opinion that this movie has been unfairly singled out to be trashed in the media, I can't see. Hopefully you understand that I have not claimed that it is a "good" movie. My point is that it is JUST A MOVIE, and no more or less deserving of being made and seen than any other movie. When Christians complained of Monty Python's "Life Of Brian" and "The Last Temptation of Christ" I thought they were likewise missing the point.

You have every right to your opinion of the movie, and every right to share it here. I happen to think that I have an equal right to an opinion about all the ruckus surrounding the movie, and an equal right to share it here. LW disagrees. Do you really join him in that?

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You know, O'Bill, i've not seen the movie. I'll take your word for it. As for hysteria, i've not yet heard one person wax hysterical on the subject. I've heard quite a few express how sickened they were, but, then, i rarely have conversations with charismatics or ultramontane catholics, so i don't know how they've reacted.

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Well, my reference to "hysteria" was really pointed at stuff in the media and outside A2K. I was going to write that I'd read nothing that I'd realy call "hysteria" here, but then I remembered this:

Quote:

It's already killed one lady in Chicago.

Now, I understand that a woman had a heart attack during the movie, and that's a sad thing, but writing that the movie "killed her", yeah, I'd call that hysteria.

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You have the right to rant and rant all you want about a movie you haven't seen. Anyone taking you seriously please step forward. One cannot discern why there's a negative reaction to the excessive brutality of the film unless they've seen the film. Otherwise they have no choice but to conjecture based on what positive reviews they've read. That's hardly thinking for yourself.

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An unfortunate choice of words which wouldn't pass in journalism. The story wasn't reported that way. The public has been desensitized to violence and brutality in the media and it is believable that many can go to this film and stomach the carnage. Is that good? What those of you on these discussions of the film (now there are five threads running which would seem to be as overdone as the movie) is that the horror of the violence is cranked up ten fold over anything else every committed to film. You can't know that unless you see the film because the positive reviewers are more obviously biased to giving it pass because the film is about their hero. The Hollywood Hunk Jesus.

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Seems well on its way to being one of the most popular films in history, in terms of box office.

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Lightwizard wrote:

You have the right to rant and rant all you want about a movie you haven't seen.

And you have a right to continue to pretend that you don't get my point, to gloss over your departures from logic and intellectual honesty, and of course to "rant" all you want. Cool

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It would be nice to see a portrayal of jesus where he doesn't appear to be Norwegian.

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upholding his fine traditon of not letting facts get in the way of telling his truth (ala Braveheart) Mel tells his story and counts the cash. In an even better tradtion, the sheep spend their cash to be shown a story they want to see.
I don't mind.

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dyslexia wrote:

upholding his fine traditon of not letting facts get in the way of telling his truth....

I'm still not very clear about how specifically Mel departs from the version(s) of the story in the Bible. Most reviews I've seen indicate that "The Passion" is pretty faithful to the source material.

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I feel ya Scrat. Of course you have a right to have an opinion about anything.
Setanta's words fulfill my purpose in posting on this subject at all. If I had to do it again; rather than avoiding all of the attention to "remain fresh", I'd have read this very thread BEFORE seeing the film, and then I never would have seen it at all. I have never seen "Faces of Death" for the exact same reason.
I did see "the last temptation of Christ" and thought it was a mediocre film. If that were the topic of this debate, I'd agree with you completely "It was just a movie". This one is different. I'm very much looking forward to reading your actual review of the movie. I suspect you'll be changing your position or at least modifying it to some degree.

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Brandon9000, are you refering to St. John's Gospel or the teachings of St. Anselm?

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dyslexia wrote:

Brandon9000, are you refering to St. John's Gospel or the teachings of St. Anselm?

I'm looking for any instances in which Gibson presents a version which departs substantially from anything that can be found in the Gospels.

It would also be interesting to compare any such inaccuracies to prior popular film versions, such as "King of Kings," "The Greatest Story Ever Told," "Jesus of Nazareth," etc.

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As I understand it, the gospels does not go into all that detail of the violence against jesus as depicted in the film - before during and after carrying the cross. BTW, there is no description of any cross in the gospels from what I read in an article.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

BTW, there is no description of any cross in the gospels from what I read in an article.

A quick search of the Bible Gateway yielded these:

Quote:

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Quote:

Luke 23:26
As they led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus.

Quote:

John 19:17
Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha).

Quote:

John 19:19
Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the cross. It read:|sc JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

Quote:

John 19:25
Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

Quote:

Galatians 6:14
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[ 6:14 Or whom] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Quote:

Hebrews 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

But maybe your source didn't know they could just do a quick search of the Bible on the Internet, and missed these scanning the text by eye. (You might want to cancel that magazine subscription and get something else in its place.) :wink:

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Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

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