1
   

Mel Gibson's The Passion, sparking concern from the ADL.

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 05:56 pm
georgeob1
Was there another one that lasted for better than a 1000 years?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 05:58 pm
Actually, george, you need to do some reading on the history of Jewish/Christian interactions from 200-2004 CE. Smile The concept you seem unwilling to understand, is that for much of this time the Jews were either accorded second class citizenry, subject to frequent violence and surremder of property, or were subject to death on sight. consider the situation in Paris from ~750-1250, where each Good Friday the Jewish commnity was required to send a representative to the abbey of St. Denis, where the person would be ritually struck in "recompense" for the death of Christ. this "striking" frequently took the form of being beaten to death.
In addition, mob violence against Jewish areas were a common occurance in Europe well into the twentieth century. In the pre-modern era these mobs were frequenly incited to violence by virtiolic sermons. The mendicants were particularly guilty of this practice, one which contrasts severly with the serene reputations they hold in the modern day.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 05:59 pm
We each live only one life and die only once. Our humanity unites us more than our tribal affiliations divide. The husbanding of anger, envy, resentment, or hatred is evil no matter who does it or why.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:02 pm
Nice example of dissembling to avoid adressing your error.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:03 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Actually, george, you need to do some reading on the history of Jewish/Christian interactions from 200-2004 CE. Smile The concept you seem unwilling to understand, ...


How could you possibly know?

Your anecdotes add or subtract nothing from the basic point above.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:10 pm
George
Nice sentiment however I have a little trouble with that statement "Our humanity unites us more than our tribal affiliations divide" Man's inhumanity to man based upon tribal affiliations is legion.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:12 pm
Man's inhumanity to man based on the whole spectrum of human appetites is legion. Tribal affiliation. political views, greed, and just the competition for survival have all done their share. The fault is with men, not tribes.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:21 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Actually, george, you need to do some reading on the history of Jewish/Christian interactions from 200-2004 CE. Smile The concept you seem unwilling to understand, ...


How could you possibly know?

Your anecdotes add or subtract nothing from the basic point above.

Pot, kettle, black. To attempt to minimize the role Chritianity has played in the persecution of the Jews by comparing it to the Christian on Chrisitian violence of the wars of religion is either disingenous on your part, or evidence of lacunae in your historical knowledge.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 06:30 pm
George
Obviously the basic unit is man. However, without a tribal consensus there would be no operating base or strength. The need is for a cohesive group with a single purpose.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 07:45 pm
Cohesive groups have their uses to be sure. However groups don't have minds, hearts and souls, or consciences for that matter.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:21 pm
anybody remember the furor over The Last Temptation of Christ? Where is that film now? eh?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:26 pm
On my video shelf, of course. Wink
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:36 pm
Yes, Hobitbob, me too..........along with a nice fat hardback copy of Satanic Verses.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:50 pm
I'll go back and revisit "Angels in America" a hundred time before I would every subject myself to watching ten minutes of Mel's film again. Now that's writing! Of course, on Leno, Mel only took credit for being a co-writer and there was almost some mischief from Jay about who the real writer of the story was.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 09:58 pm
Quote:
Mel only took credit for being a co-writer and there was almost some mischief from Jay about who the real writer of the story was.

That would be Anna katerina Emmerich. Mystic and Consumptive (two shows on Thursday, please pay in advance!)Emmerich's entry in Catholic Encyclopedia.
Quote:
Ven. Anne Catherine Emmerich

An Augustinian nun, stigmatic, and ecstatic, born 8 September, 1774, at Flamsche, near Coesfeld, in the Diocese of Münster, Westphalia, Germany; died at Dulmen, 9 February, 1824.

Her parents, both peasants, were very poor and pious. At twelve she was bound out to a farmer, and later was a seamstress for several years. Very delicate all the time, she was sent to study music, but finding the organist's family very poor she gave them the little she had saved to enter a convent, and actually waited on them as a servant for several years. Moreover, she was at times so pressed for something to eat that her mother brought her bread at intervals, parts of which went to her master's family. In her twenty-eighth year (1802) she entered the Augustinian convent at Agnetenberg, Dulmen. Here she was content to be regarded as the lowest in the house. Her zeal, however, disturbed the tepid sisters, who were puzzled and annoyed at her strange powers and her weak health, and notwithstanding her ecstasies in church, cell, or at work, treated her with some antipathy. Despite her excessive frailty, she discharged her duties cheerfully and faithfully. When Jerome Bonaparte closed the convent in 1812 she was compelled to find refuge in a poor widow's house. In 1813 she became bedridden. She foresaw the downfall of Napoleon twelve years in advance, and counseled in a mysterious way the successor of St. Peter. Even in her childhood the supernatural was so ordinary to her that in her innocent ignorance she thought all other children enjoyed the same favours that she did, i.e. to converse familiarly with the Child Jesus, etc. She displayed a marvellous knowledge when the sick and poor came to the "bright little sister" seeking aid; she knew their diseases and prescribed remedies that did not fail. By nature she was quick and lively and easily moved to great sympathy by the sight of the sufferings of others. This feeling passed into her spiritual being with the result that she prayed and suffered much for the souls of Purgatory whom she often saw, and for the salvation of sinners whose miseries were known to her even when far away. Soon after she was confined to bed (1813) the stigmata came externally, even to the marks of the thorns. All this she unsuccessfully tried to conceal as she had concealed the crosses impressed upon her breast.

Then followed what she dreaded on account of its publicity, an episcopal commission to inquire into her life, and the reality of these wonderful signs. The examination was very strict, as the utmost care was necessary to furnish no pretext for ridicule and insult on the part of the enemies of the Church. The vicar-general, the famous Overberg, and three physicians conducted the investigation with scrupulous care and became convinced of the sanctity of the "pious Beguine", as she was called, and the genuineness of the stigmata. At the end of 1818 God granted her earnest prayer to be relieved of the stigmata, and the wounds in her hands and feet closed, but the others remained, and on Good Friday were all wont to reopen. In 1819 the government sent a committee of investigation which discharged its commission most brutally. Sick unto death as she was, she was forcibly removed to a large room in another house and kept under the strictest surveillance day and night for three weeks, away from all her friends except her confessor. She was insulted, threatened, and even flattered, but in vain. The commission departed without finding anything suspicious, and remained silent until its president, taunted about his reticence, declared that there was fraud, to which the obvious reply was: In what respect? and why delay in publishing it? About this time Klemens Brentano, the famous poet, was induced to visit her; to his great amazement she recognized him, and told him he had been pointed out to her as the man who was to enable her to fulfil God's command, namely, to write down for the good of innumerable souls the revelations made to her. He took down briefly in writing the main points, and, as she spoke the Westphalian dialect, he immediately rewrote them in ordinary German. He would read what he wrote to her, and change and efface until she gave her complete approval. Like so many others, he was won by her evident purity, her exceeding humility and patience under sufferings indescribable. With Overberg, Sailer of Ratisbon, Clement Augustus of Cologne, Stollberg, Louisa Hensel, etc., he reverenced her as a chosen bride of Christ.

In 1833 appeared the first-fruits of Brentano's toil, "The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ according to the Meditations of Anne Catherine Emmerich" (Sulzbach). Brentano prepared for publication "The Life of The Blessed Virgin Mary", but this appeared at Munich only in 1852. From the manuscript of Brentano Father Schmoeger published in three volumes "The Life of Our Lord" (Ratisbon, 1858-80), and in 1881 a large illustrated edition of the same. The latter also wrote her life in two volumes (Freiburg, 867-70, new edition, 1884). Her visions go into details, often slight, which give them a vividness that strongly holds the reader's interest as one graphic scene follows another in rapid succession as if visible to the physical eye. Other mystics are more concerned with ideas, she with events; others stop to meditate aloud and to guide the reader's thoughts, she lets the facts speak for themselves with the simplicity, brevity, and security of a Gospel narrative. Her treatment of that difficult subject, the twofold nature of Christ, is admirable. His humanity stands out clear and distinct, but through it shines always a gleam of the Divine. The rapid and silent spread of her works through Germany, France, Italy, and elsewhere speaks well for their merit. Strangely enough they produced no controversy. Dom Guéranger extolls their merits in the highest terms (Le Monde, 15 April, 1860).

Sister Emmerich lived during one of the saddest and least glorious periods of the Church's history, when revolution triumphed, impiety flourished, and several of the fairest provinces of its domain were overrun by infidels and cast into such ruinous condition that the Faith seemed about to be completely extinguished. Her mission in part seems to have been by her prayers and sufferings to aid in restoring Church discipline, especially in Westphalia, and at the same time to strengthen at least the little ones of the flock in their belief. Besides all this she saved many souls and recalled to the Christian world that the supernatural is around about it to a degree sometimes forgotten. A rumour that the body was stolen caused her grave to be opened six weeks after her death. The body was found fresh, without any sign of corruption. In 1892 the process of her beatification was introduced by the Bishop of Münster.

What Anne jacobsen Schutte would call an "aspiring saint."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 10:12 pm
hobit, Quite a story.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2004 11:43 pm
You had to see it, of course. Leno was alluding to God. I was aware of the many sources Gibson had used and again on Tonight he said he had talked with many theologians over the years about the project. Too bad none of it sank it or that he might wake up to the reason no Hollywood production company wanted to come near it.

It's not as if none of us doesn't know the story and I was appalled at Roeper's mentioning "storytelling." Duh. We knew the boat sank in "Titanic" and we knew Christ was going to end up on the cross. Because there is no suspense in telling the story again for the umpteenth time, Mel decided to show us all the lurid details of the floggings, forced march with the cross and the railroad spike action at the end of the film. Of course, any human being losing that much blood just from the floggings would have expired but this man was superhuman and could make it through to the end of the line. This will defintely make Easter more important to all of us, especially if all the Easter eggs are rotten.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2004 12:03 am
Lola wrote:
anybody remember the furor over The Last Temptation of Christ? Where is that film now? eh?

I remember my father and I crossed a picket line of uptight Christians when we went to see Monty Python's "Life Of Brian" in the theater when it first came out many years ago. All I could think then, (and now) was "don't these people think God has a sense of humor?"

Fast forward to today and we have non-Christians upset that someone made a movie that attempts to portray a small part of Christ's story in a realistic and favorable way. I'm more convinced than ever that God does have a sense of humor, and a strong sense of irony as well.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2004 12:08 am
Quote:
"don't these people think God has a sense of humor?"

"Why would you ask that," opined the platypus. Wink
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Feb, 2004 12:17 am
Um, my mother was interested in A. C. Emmerich..
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 02/07/2025 at 10:38:30