Gingrich: US faces potential second Holocaust

Old Europe,

Have you just emerged from twenty years of isolation? The DPRK has been threatening ROK since the '50's. They have been constrained only by the presence of US troops on the Peninsula and the fear of our military. The DPRK wants a nuclear arsenal for two purposes: (1) as a threat to improve their "negotiations" to reunify Korea under the Kim Dynasty, and (2) as a possible source of badly needed foreign exchange. Kim Jong-Il is unlikely to actually use his nuclear capability (whatever it might actually be) except as a Korean version of the Apocalypse. Iran is one of the DPRK's principle trading partners for weapons and nuclear technology (these are just about the only exports the DPRK has).

Iran's President and mouthpiece for the religious dictatorship has been been explicit in his goal of wiping Israel off the map and utterly destroying the United States. Iran is supporting and supplying the terrorists who are daily murdering Iraqi civilians and U.S. soldiers. Iraq's leadership clearly intends to dominate the region, and eventually the entire world. Iran is developing nuclear weapons and the missile technology to deliver warheads anywhere in the world. What is the purpose, if not to threaten and kill as many infidels as possible?

These two rogue States invite attack by their own words and actions that endanger the rest of the world.

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Nonsense Walter. I'm not going to quibble over terms, when my meaning should be clear to everyone here.

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Asherman wrote:

Nonsense Walter. I'm not going to quibble over terms, when my meaning should be clear to everyone here.

Well, so you certainly don't mind that I call that response by a - nota bene - historian (sic!) nonsense as well.

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jespah wrote:

I dunno, how does matzoh affect your internals?

No consequence for internals and tongue achieves a high state of delight. There's a Mennonite food which is nearly identical and my siblings and I never ever refused a plate of it. I think I might make some today. Thank you for the reminder.

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Ahmadinejad has indeed suggested Israel should be wiped from the map. Israel comprises approximately 20,000 sq km. Approximately 10 well placed 20 megaton H-bombs would very nearly accomplish wiping Israel from the map, quite literally. Unlike most invocations of Godwin's Law; I don't think use of the term holocaust is inappropriate for this scenario. Left unchecked; Ahmadinejad could easily develop the means to accomplish this very feat within the next decade. We're talking about 50 year old technology and the yield I used for my example is equivalent to our very first H-Bomb test.

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jespah wrote:

.................................................

It is an enormous leap to go from a few thousand dead in a senseless war to shoving people into gas chambers and ovens and committing genocide. The two don't even begin to equate. About the closest that things that have since come to it are "ethnic cleansing" in Serbia and the horrors perpetuated in Rwanda on both Hutus and Tutsis.
......................................................

Going by numbers, it's a tossup whether Stalin or Mao killed more of their own people - those 2 vying for 1st place with total estimates STARTING at 50 million for each country. Either way Hitler was # 3.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM

Going by population percentages the post-WWII record is held by Pol Pot who managed to kill off a third of Cambodia's population; the former Yugoslavia (not the same thing as "Serbia") isn't even runner-up: the Eastern Congo holds that distinction (if considered as a separate country), with the eastern rim of the Sahara second and the Rwandans nowhere even close. So much for the "historical overview".

Not to mention that throwing people alive into crematoria, or boiling them alive (as was recently done in Kazakhstan) was and is known to be practiced in several locations, but not in any of the old Nazi camps. It follows that the "idiot" Gingrich was obviously addressing others, similarly afflicted by "idiocy", none of whom ever knew any survivors of that particular "holocaust". Or maybe Newt Gingrich had some idea of his own State prisons' history under the Confederacy:

http://www.cr.nps.gov/seac/andecon.htm

Or there might be yet other possible explanations for that original post.

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I'm still sure that 'Holocaust' is - at least among scholars and especially historians - a fixed term (though still some just narrow to the Jews).

And was even more disturbing that this discussion here started at the International Holocaust Memorial Day.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

.....................................
And was even more disturbing that this discussion here started at the International Holocaust Memorial Day.

Quote:

Telegram Received.

From Constantinople
Dated July 16, 1915
Recd. July 20, 8:10 AM.

Secretary of State,
Washington.

858, July 16, 1 p.m.
Have you received my 841? Deportation of and excesses against peaceful Armenians is increasing and from harrowing reports of eye witnesses it appears that a campaign of race extermination is in progress under a pretext of reprisal against rebellion.

Protests as well as threats are unavailing and probably incite the Ottoman government to more drastic measures as they are determined to disclaim responsibility for their absolute disregard of capitulations and I believe nothing short of actual force which obviously the United States are not in a position to exert would adequately meet the situation. Suggest you inform belligerent nations and mission boards of this.

AMERICAN AMBASSADOR [Henry Morgenthau],
Constantinople

Walter - what is even more disturbing is the complete silence of hitherto rather voluble posters when documented facts concerning non-jewish victims are brought to their attention. Is it that they didn't know the facts before and they're struck speechless with surprise?

Or is some other cause at work here? I hope at least one or two of them will come back and explain.

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Re: Gingrich: US faces potential second Holocaust
Actually, I was at work. Funny how they don't like me posting there.

Like I said before, I make no claims to the word. And certainly there are numerous examples of humans being, well, inhuman to one another. I have few doubts that similar atrocities happened in the North but it's the name Andersonvilel that most remember, if any.

No, what bugs me, what I have treid to get across and perhaps I have been unclear about this, is that the Holocaust is continually the go-to bit of evil for people to talk about when they want to pump up the hyperbole. And it is no accident to mention it when speaking re Israel or to Israelis, etc.

And, I was also addressing the initial post, which stated (in part) ...

maddog88 wrote:

... if there is a holocaust the government will be behind it. Just think about it. How much power would the government get if a nuke went off in Chicago or New York. This Administration is guilty of allowing 3,000+ U.S. troops to die in a meaningless war in Iraq and is now eager to start a new war in Iran so I wouldn't put it past them to murder a few million people to gain total dictatorial control.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Gingrichs_24_scenario_US_Israel_face_0124.html

and I (and I see no one actually seems to have picked up on this) said that this administration (yes, I mean Bush) may have done some things, but to leap from the war in Iraq to a holocaust/genocide is to go from the jump of an ant to a leap into the stratosphere.

I see I did not make that point, or no one seems to have noticed it. What I am saying is, the original poster claimed that Bush was capable of moving from point 1 to point 50 gazillion and I said, no, things may be disturbing, but he isn't.

Interesting tangents this topic has taken.

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Agreed. To use such terms in regards to our current short-comer-in-chief is indeed idiotic. But for Ahmadinejad, I'm not so sure. He seems to be a wannabe Hitler... but hopefully the Iranians will soon vote in a less outspoken nutcase of the Supreme Idiot's choosing. That should be much better. Rolling Eyes

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After some research, I agree meanwhile that the term "Holocaust" is only so narrowly defined in Europe.
Seems, we here were so close to it that we want it as a stand-alone.

Well, and historians (worldwide) are used to that term.

[As an aside: in English, 'Kristallnacht', 'Reichskristallnacht' or 'Night of the Broken Glass' is still used.
Not here, since a) it refers to the Nazi term which b) was a belittlement of what actually happened.
So it's "progrom night" here.]

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Gingrich: US faces potential second Holocaust

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