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The USA has declared war on Iran and Syria

 
 
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 03:53 pm
Read this:
"The Iranians need to know, and the Syrians need to know," said Rice in yesterday's hearing, "that the United States is not finding it acceptable and is not going to simply tolerate their activities to try and harm our forces or to destabilize Iraq."

So, now when they knock the chip off of her shoulder, what happens?

First, if this hasn't already happened, we will begin strikes on personnel and equipment on the Iranian border and then at any suspected staging areas 50-100 miles inside the country. (All of the Viet Nam veterans get a jolt of deja vu remembering Nixon and Cambodia)

The highways leading to Syria will be strafed on a regular basis until it becomes time to drop the Special Forces inside the borders to take out insurgent bases.

When will this start happening?

Joe(Probably yesterday about ten minutes after the hearing ended.)Nation
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 6,328 • Replies: 123
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 08:26 pm
Thanks for the votes.

I'm betting that there are units inside both countries right now.

If this administration can have secret prisons, they can have their secret wars


Joe(Nixon lied about the Parrot's Beak incursion for two months)Nation
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 08:33 pm
joe :
i think some people are starting to dig holes in their backyards .
reminds me too much of the 1950's when schoolchildren were told to take cover under their desks .
i'm beginning to wonder if someone is praying for the 'rapture' - and i'm not sure that i'm joking .
SHIVERING !
hbg
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 08:45 pm
Im voting with no comment.

That is how I keep my sanity here.. read along on the Politics + S&R, but stay silent.

Unless I slip in a long worded bookmark like I just did...
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 09:10 pm
I voted "shooting but no war" but I think I'll call my brother.

He's in S. Korea where there is intermittent shooting but no war.....
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 09:12 pm
I've always been sceptical about claims that Bush would seek war against Iran next - saw it as a bit of partisan panicmongering - even if Bush had wanted to, its clearly not possible.

But the last few days I suddenly feel very uncomfortable.

Random example:

Quote:
ESCALATION?

There's been plenty of speculation lately that the White House is gearing up for some sort of military confrontation with Iran. First there was his speech two nights ago, in which Bush talked about "addressing Iran and Syria" with a rather menacing undertone. Then the U.S. military raided an Iranian liaison office in the Kurdish city of Irbil and took a couple of Iranians captive--a move roundly denounced by the Kurdish regional government. Steve Clemons then passed along this bit of scuttlebutt:

    Washington intelligence, military and foreign policy circles are abuzz today with speculation that the President, yesterday or in recent days, sent a secret Executive Order to the Secretary of Defense and to the Director of the CIA to launch military operations against Syria and Iran.
Rumors are what they are, but it's a bit alarming for this sort of "speculation" to crop up all of the sudden. Flynt Leverett, a former member of the Bush administration's National Security Council, added his two cents:

    The deployment of a second carrier strike group to the theater--confirmed in the speech--is clearly directed against Iran. Since, in contrast to previous U.S. air campaigns in the Gulf, military planners developing contingencies for striking target sets in Iran must assume that the United States would not be able to use land-based air assets in theater (because of political opposition in the region), they are surely positing a force posture of at least two, and possible three carrier strike groups to provide the necessary numbers and variety of tactical aircraft. Similarly, the President's announcement that additional Patriot batteries would go to the Gulf is clearly directed against Iran. We have previously deployed Patriot batteries to the region to deal with the Iraqi SCUD threat. Today, the only missile threat in the region for the Patriot to address is posed, at least theoretically, by Iran's Shihab-3.
Then yesterday, Joe Biden warned Condoleezza Rice that an attack on Iran would "generate a constitutional confrontation in the Senate." Presumably Biden didn't just pull this comment out of thin air--he seems to be under the impression that the administration really might be crazy enough to launch an attack on Iran. When reporters pressed this point earlier today, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, basically dodged: "We can take care of the security for our troops by doing the business we need to do inside Iraq." That's not exactly a rousing denial.

The other day Jason suggestedthat advocates of withdrawal (or "redeploying") might be underestimating the consequences of leaving Iraq. I don't think that's really true, although I'm sure you can find such people if you dig around long enough. But it does seem true that pundits who "aren't sure" what to do about Iraq and so are implicitly endorsing the status quo are very badly underestimating the ability of this administration to make things much, much worse in the near future with this "surge" business. Right now all signs are pointing in exactly that direction.

--Bradford Plumer
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 09:48 pm
I voted, but won't comment, for fear of saying things I could regret later on.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 01:03 am
To the extent Iran has taken up with our enemies, they are our enemies and should be dealt with accordingly. You suggest Bush may engage in war with them without declaring it; but isn't that PRECISELY what they have already done and are continuing to do to the United States? Those who aid and abet our enemies are our enemies and it's high time we stop pretending this isn't so. Ignoring it is, in essence, condoning Iran's assistance in blowing up U.S. personnel. It is hideous that they EVER thought they could do so with impunity and even more hideous that so many Americans think they should be allowed to continue doing so with impunity.

Let me break this down for the proverbial ostriches: People who kill American Soldiers are the enemy of same, and should be dealt with accordingly.

I couldn't vote, because your poll neglected to include: "should have started the day Iran decided to help kill American Soldiers."
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 03:49 am
If their actions are as transparent as you say then so should ours be. That would be the American way. As it is, the attacks will expand the war just as Kristol and others have desired from the first.

Joe(and so it goes)Nation
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 06:13 am
i believe the war started a week ago, and in two weeks george will put on another army costume and stand on the iran/iraq border and declare mission accomplished and then he'll fly home feeling really good about himself and then the body bags will start moving in

i mean that's how it happened three years ago

he's the ADHD president can't focus

a couple of months in afghanistan, taliban gone (yeah, from the villages and towns dickhead), let's go fight in iraq, iraq going badly, let's posture and threaten a couple of more countries, by years end he'll be eyeing North Korea

i agree with the need for these actions just not the clearly insane scheduling

Clear, Hold and Build would have been a great strategy for afghanistan, if my memory serves me, they were hosting the real culprits, culprits who seem to be doing quite nicely while my country and a few others and a handful of american soldiers chip away at them

as an aside people say, well afghanistan clearly worked, al queda hasn't attaked us again

it was 8 years from WTC bombing, a rather poor attempt, until 9/11, a rather spectacular sucess so to speak

i don't think we've heard the last from them

and what about pakistan, they are clearly aiding and abetting the enemy, mostky through inaction than anything else, why no threats or rainding parties talked about there

dj(well my blood pressure is raised enough for the day)jd
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 06:56 am
Dont you find the plot premise of "1984" and the present status uncomfortably similar?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 10:32 am
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1990463,00.html

snippet wrote:
The evidence is building up that President Bush plans to add war on Iran to his triumphs in Iraq and Afghanistan - and there is every sign, to judge by his extraordinary warmongering speech in Plymouth on Friday, that Tony Blair would be keen to join him if he were still in a position to commit British forces to the field.

"There's a strong sense in the upper echelons of the White House that Iran is going to surface relatively quickly as a major issue - in the country and the world - in a very acute way," said NBC TV's Tim Russert after meeting the president. This is borne out by the fact that Bush has sent forces to the Gulf that are irrelevant to fighting the Iraqi insurgents. These include Patriot anti-missile missiles, an aircraft carrier, and cruise-missile-firing ships.

Many military analysts see these deployments as signals of impending war with Iran. The Patriot missiles are intended to shoot down Iranian missiles. The naval forces, including British ships, train to pre-empt Iranian interference with oil shipments through the straits of Hormuz.
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 11:09 am
farmerman wrote:
Dont you find the plot premise of "1984" and the present status uncomfortably similar?


or the movie "brazil"

Beginning "somewhere in the 20th century" at 8:49PM, the retro-futuristic world of Brazil is a gritty, post-apocalyptic, urban landscape in which terrorist attacks, counter-terrorist measures and a bureaucratic quagmire make everyday life difficult.


gilliam had originally wanted to call the movie 1984 1/2
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 11:50 am
while president bush accuses syria of meddling in the affairs of iraq , iraqi president malaki visits syria and is givien a warm reception !
did you see the welcome he was given when he arrived in syria ?
pretty impressive for the president of a country that's having a lot of problems right now .
and looking at it from the syrian side - is it "a poke in the eye" for someone ?

scratching my head .

is there no communication between the u.s. adminisstration in iraq and the iraqi government ?
has the iraqi president been given a "nod" to go ahead with the visit by "someone" in the u.s. administration ?
i just can't believe that president malaki would go ahead with the visit to syria if it goes directly against u.s. policy .
or does malaki realize that he has to get the co-operation of syria (and iran - where he visited just a short while ago ) if there is to be any hope of getting some kind of order established in iraq ?
certainly somewhat puzzling .
hbg



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the BBC reports :

Iraq's Talabani arrives in Syria
-----------------------------------
Mr Talabani spent the Saddam Hussein years in exile in Syria
Jalal Talabani has arrived for talks in Syria, becoming the first Iraqi president to pay an official visit to the country in nearly 30 years.
Mr Talabani immediately went into talks with President Bashar al-Assad at the presidential palace.

The countries restored ties in November after a break of more than 20 years.

The visit comes days after US President George W Bush accused both Syria and Iran of fuelling Iraq's violence as he announced his new strategy for Iraq.

The US says Syria allows militants to enter Iraq. Damascus denies the accusation, saying it is doing all it can to secure its border.

BBC world affairs correspondent Mike Wooldridge says Mr Talabani's visit demonstrates Iraq's balancing act between the US and a country Washington prefers to see isolated.

Mr Talabani lived in exile in Syria during the Saddam Hussein era.




full report :
...IRAQI PRESIDENT VISITS SYRIA...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 08:11 pm
nimh wrote:


Reader icarusr, commenting on this item, summarised some sobering facts for the few who are still enthusiastic about more sabre-rattling (hi O'Bill) to consider:

Quote:
I highly recommend Barbara Tuchman's "The March of Folly", especially the section on Vietnam, for those advocating an attack on Iran and Syria.

Even better, I suggest they pick up an Atlas and examine closely the map of Iran. It is three times bigger than Iraq; 2/3 mountains rising up to over 16,000 feet, and 1/4 arid and inhospitable desert (remember what happened to Carter's Save-the-Hotages team?), the country is not exactly built for massive armed movements on land or, indeed, the type of "precision-bombing" the US managed to do in Iraq. Instead, think of Israel's war in Lebanon, with mountains a hundred times vaster and ten times taller. Plus a 70-million strong population, of whom over 20 million are military age men and boys. This is in terms of the country's sheer ability to defend itself. Not to mention Iran's capacity to make mischief throughout the region (ask yourself how much US companies have sunk in Dubai, only 100 kilometers from Iranian shores, and you will have an answer to the potential trouble Iran could cause if its vital interests are attacked by the US) and all over the globe.

NOT to mention that as we speak, the idea of an attack by the US (or Israel) for purported nuclear transgressions has already been mooted openly and dismissed by ALL of the allies and remaining friends of the United States, and strongly opposed by the Russians and the Chinese. The US is big, now, sure; the question is whether by willy-nilly attacking Iran, it would force otherwise rival powers around the globe to coalesce against it. And so to save a failing misadventure in Iraq and a miserable presidency, the US would imperil its long-term security interests from Shanghai to Murmansk.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 08:12 pm
http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2007/01/15/tomo/story.jpg
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 08:46 pm
At some point in the past this administration pushed the following idea:

that by attacking Iraq we would so intimidate the remaining members of the Axis of Evil that they would begin to behave nicely.

Instead both North (we got the bomb, we got the bomb) Korea and Iran (guess what we are cooking up?) don't seem to be shaking in their boots.

It's a good thing someone (Iraq) is talking to Iran and Syria.

Joe(we don't have the sense to)Nation
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 09:29 pm
I don't buy the doomsday predictions, but the cartoon's hilarious.

That is funny, isn't it Joe? Think one more ass whooping will do it? Or should Syria start contemplating traveling arrangements?
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 09:52 pm
The only good news here is that, with 21,000 more troops committed for Iraq, pretty soon Dubya is going to run out of troops to send all over the globe. I suppose he could just send every member of our military establishment overseas and leave our shores unprotected. I mean, who'd dare to attack us on our own soil, right?

This man is the most frightening thing that has happened to this country in my lifetime and I'm damned close to 70 years of age. His potential for doing damage beats Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined. Heaven help us because pretty soon nobody else will be willing to.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jan, 2007 09:57 pm
Merry Andrew wrote:
Heaven help us because pretty soon nobody else will be willing to.


Umm... sorry, Merry, but I doesn't Dubya already have heaven on his side?

We'll have to look elsewhere for help.

Perhaps it is time to call up the legions of Satan and to don our black robes.
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