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SURGING IN IRAQ

 
 
Libcoesque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 01:15 am
squinney wrote:
I had been hearing 20,000. Then over the weekend I heard a few references to between 20 and 40, 000. Now we seem to be back down to 20,000.

It will be interesting to hear from Bush what number he is really thinking of sending.

Maybe we'll hear a new number. 9,000 perhaps.


Quote:
His plan, outlined in a prime-time address to the nation on Wednesday, would raise troop levels in Iraq by 21,500 _ from 132,000 to 153,500 _ at a cost of $5.6 billion.


http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Jan12/0,4670,USIraq,00.html
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 07:18 am
Quote:
You forget the enforcement of the terms of surrender from Gulf War 1 as if they had no relevance in the decision process?


They don't have any relevance in the decision process. It had nothing to do with our decision to invade.

Don't kid yourself, sheesh

Cycloptichorn

Don't be so gullible to the rhetoric from your Democratic Party liars.

Recall the following?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html


Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq





Whereas in 1990 in response to Iraq's war of aggression against and illegal occupation of Kuwait, the United States forged a coalition of nations to liberate Kuwait and its people in order to defend the national security of the United States and enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions relating to Iraq;

Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;

Whereas the efforts of international weapons inspectors, United States intelligence agencies, and Iraqi defectors led to the discovery that Iraq had large stockpiles of chemical weapons and a large scale biological weapons program, and that Iraq had an advanced nuclear weapons development program that was much closer to producing a nuclear weapon than intelligence reporting had previously indicated;

Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;


I know FACTS get in your way of being objective.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 07:42 am
EXTENDED DUTY....

Quote:
Well, now we know where Bush is getting the troops for his surge:

The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday, a major change that reflects an Army stretched thin by longer-than-expected combat in Iraq.

....Until now, the Pentagon's policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members' cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.

In other words, a citizen-soldier could be mobilized for a 24-month stretch in Iraq or
Afghanistan, then demobilized and allowed to return to civilian life, only to be mobilized a second time for as much as an additional 24 months. In practice, Pace said, the Pentagon intends to limit all future mobilizations to 12 months.

This should go over well....
0 Replies
 
Vinny Z
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 08:47 am
What I think the problem here is is that the USA wanted to have armed forces that would be light on their feet. The idea would be to get in, do a job, and get out, which sounds like some relationships I have had. But anyway that is not the kind of armed forces it needs if it is going to move in and stay a while, so it is decision time. If the USA is going to be an extended-stay guest, then it needs to do some major changes to its armed forces, and that is going to take a long time, so in the meantime those guys revel mentioned are blewed, screwed, and tattooed.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 09:05 am
Choosing victory over surrender
By David Limbaugh
Friday, January 12, 2007

President Bush has now done what Democrats have been demanding of him for years. But are they satisfied? Of course not. They make sure of that by forever moving the goal posts.

Democrats have constantly complained that President Bush never admits mistakes and is too stubborn and inflexible to change his strategies. But on all these counts, his speech on Iraq should give Democrats much to cheer about.

He admitted he has made mistakes in Iraq and that his policies were not working. He accepted responsibility for his failures and laid out a new strategy specifically to address and remedy them. But instead of praising him, Democrats redoubled their criticism and reaffirmed their resignation to our defeat.

How about the president's new strategy? The press is heavily emphasizing his plan to send 21,500 more troops to Iraq, but is ignoring the other equally important aspects of the strategy.

The president intends to close several debilitating loopholes in our strategy to date. He is changing the rules of engagement and demanding the removal of restrictions on attacking Shiite militias, which have been insulated by Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

President Bush also confirmed what we've long known: Iran and Syria are fomenting sectarian violence and terrorism, and providing safe haven for terrorists and insurgents to move in and out of Iraq. And, "Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops."

But he did more than merely pay lip service to Iran and Syria's intermeddling. He said we would "seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq." Depending on how far he is willing to go literally to implement that part of the policy, it could represent a major breakthrough in the war.

The additional troops will not just be used to augment our forces across the board. Twenty-one-thousand troops wouldn't amount to a drop in the bucket if that were the only change. But, most will be strategically placed in the war's hot spots: Baghdad and Anbar Province so that we won't have to neglect one area while focusing on the other.

The proof remains in the implementation, but the president deserves credit for his commitment to victory and his willingness to make significant adjustments to succeed. He could have taken the easy way out by using the Iraq Study Group report as cover to withdraw our troops and extricate ourselves from the problematic mess.

But he has always been sincere in maintaining Iraq is a central part of the war on terror and that a "self-governing, self-sustaining, self-defending" and stable Iraq is essential to a victory in the war on terror. Despite setbacks and incessant criticisms of his policies and attacks on his character, he has remained unbowed in pursuit of victory. Meanwhile, the Democrats continue doing what they do best: castigating President Bush and obstructing his policies, without offering a single constructive alternative. Their very choice of a speaker to respond to the president's address: Sen. Dick Durbin -- notorious for comparing Gitmo to Nazi and Communist prison camps -- is emblematic of their attitude toward the war and the enemy.

The Democrats' response, true to form, was directed more at President Bush personally even than attacking his policies. Instead of applauding him for publicly acknowledging mistakes on Iraq, they seized on his admission as another opportunity to condemn his mistakes. Always in negative campaign mode, their urgent business of ruining President Bush must take precedence over winning the war.

The Democrats' lack of seriousness about the war can be seen in the randomness of their musical-chairs criticisms. As soon as the president does what they have demanded, such as in sending more troops or issuing ultimatums to al-Maliki, they pretend they never advocated such things and move on to the next convenient criticism.

That's because their complaints are mostly designed to mask their real goal of abandoning the military option (read: cutting and running) and negotiating with terrorist tyrants.

The Democratic leadership is like a bunch of dogs nipping at the pant legs of President Bush while he's trying to keep his legs in motion to score a touchdown. But if they earnestly try to deny funding for these troops, as threatened, and begin endless, destructive investigations, they'll become defensive linebackers committed outright to thwarting our victory and ensuring that our fallen soldiers have died in vain.

President Bush's plan is not guaranteed to succeed, but it might be our last best hope to turn things around and move toward victory.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 02:22 pm
Okie and w, you seem to be saying that everything is pretty much on course with this war. You forget that the administration, early on, said that the war would be over in about 10 months, and that Iraqi oil would cover all the costs. How wrong can you be?

I am very concerned about what is going on with regard to Iran. Bush is making bellicose statements, moving a carrier group into the Gulf, and has arrested what appears to be Iranian diplomats in Iraq. Is this a prelude to another war, or nuke attack on Iran? Bush probably feels that Iran will be a political bailout for him.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Jan, 2007 10:07 pm
Advocate wrote:
Okie and w, you seem to be saying that everything is pretty much on course with this war. You forget that the administration, early on, said that the war would be over in about 10 months, and that Iraqi oil would cover all the costs. How wrong can you be?


I recall that as a hope, maybe voiced by the administration, I will take your word for it although I doubt they put any definite time period to it that I recall. And I certainly did not think it could be done that quickly.

I happen to think our position is not all that terrible if you look at it strategically. Aside from the task of stabilizing Iraq, being in Iraq gives us more flexibility in our approach to deal with other threats in the region, such as the very, very serious Iran problem.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 06:35 am
You're kidding, right? You say "Aside from the task of stabilizing Iraq," as if it wasn't the morass that it has become due to the incompetence of this administration.

Joe(When does Don Rumsfeld get his Medal of Freedom?)Nation
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 09:23 am
Joe, the question is when will the advance pardons be issued.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Jan, 2007 10:15 am
Hope you all get a chance to visit:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89980&highlight=
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Jan, 2007 04:33 pm
http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/070109/crowson.jpg
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 04:02 pm
The surge is Bush's Hail Mary pass.



^1/15/07: The Texas Strategy

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Hundreds of news articles and opinion pieces have described President
Bush's decision to escalate the Iraq war as a "Hail Mary pass."

But that's the wrong metaphor.

Mr. Bush isn't Roger Staubach, trying to pull out a win for the Dallas
Cowboys. He's Charles Keating, using other people's money to keep
Lincoln Savings going long after it should have been shut down -- and
squandering the life savings of thousands of investors, not to mention
billions in taxpayer dollars, along the way.

The parallel is actually quite exact. During the savings and loan scandal
of the 1980s, people like Mr. Keating kept failed banks going by faking
financial success. Mr. Bush has kept a failed war going by faking military
success.

The "surge" is just another stalling tactic, designed to buy more time.

Oh, and one of the favorite techniques used by the owners of savings and
loan associations to generate phony profits -- it involved making high-
interest loans to crooked or flaky real estate developers -- came to be
known as the "Texas strategy."

What was the point of the Texas strategy? Bank owners were certainly
gambling -- with other people's money, of course -- in the hope of a
miraculous recovery that would bail out their negative balance sheets.

But the real point of the racket was a form of looting: as long as they
could keep reporting high paper profits, S.&L. owners could keep
rewarding themselves with salaries, dividends and sweetheart business
deals.

Mr. Keating paid himself a million dollars just weeks before his holding
company collapsed.

Which brings us to Iraq. The administration has spent the last three
years pretending that its splendid little war isn't a big disaster.
There have been the bromides (we're making "good progress"); the
promises (we have a "strategy for victory"); and, as always, attacks on
the media for not reporting the good news from Iraq.

Who you gonna believe, the president or your lying eyes?

Now Mr. Bush has grudgingly sort- of admitted that things aren't going
well -- but he says his "new way forward" will fix everything.

So it's still the Texas strategy: the war's architects are trying to
keep their failed venture going as long as possible.

The Hail Mary aspect -- the off chance that somehow, things really will
turn out all right -- is the least of their motivations. The real intent
is a form of looting. I'm not talking mainly about old-fashioned war
profiteering, although there is no question that profiteering is taking
place on an epic scale. No, I'm saying that the hawks want to keep this
war going because it's to their personal and political benefit.

True, Mr. Bush can't win another election with phony claims of success
in Iraq, the way he did in 2004. But escalation buys him another year or
two to claim that we're making progress -- and it gives him another
chance to prove that he's the Decider, beyond accountability.

And as for pundits who promoted the war and are now trying to sell the
surge: for a little while longer they can be Very Important People who
have the president's ear.

Meanwhile, the nation pays the price. The heaviest burden -- in death,
shattered bodies, broken families and ruined careers -- falls on those
who serve. To find the personnel for the Bush escalation, the Pentagon
must lengthen deployments in Iraq and shorten training time at home.

And the back-door draft has become a life sentence: there is no limit on
the cumulative amount of time citizen-soldiers can be required to serve
on active duty. Mama, don't let your children grow up to be reservists.

The rest of us will pay a financial price for the hundreds of billions
squandered in Iraq and, more important, a price in reduced security.

Escalation won't bring victory in Iraq, but it might bring defeat in
Afghanistan, which the administration will continue to neglect. And it
has pushed the military to the breaking point.

Mr. Bush calls his critics "irresponsible," saying that they don't have
an alternative to his strategy. But they do: setting a timetable for
withdrawal, so that we can cut our losses, and trying to save what can
be saved. It isn't a strategy for victory because that's no longer an
option. It's a strategy for acknowledging reality.

The lesson of the savings and loan scandal was that when a bank has
failed, you shouldn't let the owner string you along with promises -- you
should shut the thing down. We should do the same with Mr. Bush's failed
war.
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0 Replies
 
 

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