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An epiphany - losing hatred - need help

 
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2006 01:40 pm
Re: An epiphany - losing hatred - need help
snood wrote:
Talk to a couple of flesh-and-blood Muslims. I find its hard to maintain hatred based on some idealized notions or caricatures, in the face of real people. It might be easier to see similarities and forget all the supposed differences, if you just found a couple Muslims and talked with them about whatever.


Nicely stated. In a previous thread, Wilso, you stated that you don't think there are a million Muslims in the world who oppose terrorism. I can introduce you to many who do, and talking to real-live people might help you rethink this caricature.
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dagmaraka
 
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Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2006 01:52 pm
Well, Wilso, it seems to me that you have already done the first big step. Realizing the irrationality of some prejudices we hold and the will to rid ourselves of them are more than half the battle already. Most people never make it that far.I agree that talking to flesh-and-blood Muslims would do the trick. When you look into somebody's eyes, it doesn't matter what they're wearing, whether they go to church or mosque or nowhere. Where there's a will,there's a way.
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TTH
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2006 02:08 pm
Re: hatred
Ragman wrote:
Ragman wrote:
If you have such a strong opinion about the leadership of this country than why not do something about it?


Your assumption that I haven't done something about it is odious and inaccurate. I am doing something about it (and have in past)..and will in the future [campaign against the WORST and MOST DANGEROUS President the USA has EVER had]. Participation in this forum is but a small portion of what can be done. However, Bush is not solely responsible for this mess...Congress is also to blame. I had helped campaign agaisnt that do-nothing Congress. Luckily, with our concerted efforts, a lot of those rascals were tossed out of office. Our VOTES and activities do count! The leadership of this country is and will be held accountable for attempting to force Democracy down the throats of an unwilling nation.

I now kindly redirect this discussion back to where it was heading (non-political).


I had no intent of redirecting the subject matter to politics. I felt the need to respond to your post when you brought up the subject in your earlier post regarding our President.
I will also point out I made NO assumption about your actions or lack of, I only asked a question.
So, I will defend my post, but have no desire to discuss politics since that was not the intend of the subject to begin with. I am sorry you misunderstood my intent.
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Ragman
 
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Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2006 02:32 pm
No problem. Have a happy holiday
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OmSigDAVID
 
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Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 12:29 am
Re: An epiphany - losing hatred - need help
Wilso wrote:
Some recent discussions dealing with some of the far right fanatics on this site actually made me feel sick to the stomach. The glib way they can discuss and actually call for some nation they don't like to be nuked, for hundreds of thousands, or possibly millions of people to be instantly vapourised, reveals them for the ugly, hate filled people that they really are. It suddenly dawned on me that my attitude to islam is not too far removed from how they feel towards just about everyone. For a person who is about to be a father, this is unacceptable. I do fear muslims greatly. I don't believe there'll be peace in any part of this world while that religion exists. But how do I lose hatred, and more importantly, not let it infect my children?

I voted for Barry Goldwater in 1964.
I love, favor n wish to conserve the freedom offered by
the US Constitution, including its Bill of Rights,
and support its basis of a l'aissez faire free market.
During the Third World War, I was and I remain, fiercely Anti-communist.
I believe that this qualifies me as being an Orthodox, right winger.

Speaking as such,
I offer the following reply to your inquiry:

while DOING what we have to do,
KNOWING the history of the Moslems' acts
( including, for instance, the Taliban flaying
some poor Moslem soul, n burying him alive, for a minor religious infraction )
we need not get EMOTIONAL about it.

We need to approach the issue of our defenses
in a RATIONAL, well thought out manner,
and impliment our decisions, in a dispassionate fashion.

Hatred is unnecessary; we 'll be better off without it.
Good luck with your son. Merry Christmas n Happy New Year !

David
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 03:17 am
Re: An epiphany - losing hatred - need help
Wilso wrote:
But how do I lose hatred, and more importantly, not let it infect my children?

How about travelling to a muslim country with them -- Indonesia or Turkey perhaps? There you could meet the 99.9% of Muslims who don't throw bombs, meaning your favorite TV station never reports about them, meaning these people had no chance yet to shape your attitude about Muslims. Nothing innoculates against irrational hatred as well as experience does.

Good luck!

(EDIT: On reading the whole thread, I notice snood beat me to it.)
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 03:28 am
Wilso wrote:
It's not just terrorism that concerns me. In fact, that's not really the root of it. I'm far more affected by a poster on this site who has stated that she thinks death is a fitting punishment for apostasy. It's fear turning into something else.

The Old Testament agrees with that poster. Does this make you hate Jews and Christians too now?
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 03:49 am
Wilso is "correct" to feel threatened by those who label themselves Jihadic Islamicists. Their perception of "reality" is a demonstrable danger to the lives of others. The philosophical problem for Wilso is to separate "the person" from "the label". He may succeed with his own labels, but the difficulty of that task for him is likely to indicate its unliklihood for others.
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Wilso
 
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Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 03:54 am
Thomas wrote:
Does this make you hate Jews and Christians too now?


They give me moments too.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 05:29 am
Abid wrote:
The truth is women in the western world are slaves to society. they think they have to reveal themselves for attention or self esteem, thinking this is the only way they will be noticed or fit in.

In essence, they are like meat on the market, ready for the next perve to leer and lust of them.


This is why I keep getting drawn into hatred.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 06:08 am
No, you keep getting "drawn into hatred" because the only Muslims you get exposure to are nameless, faceless people on discussion boards who say things that are intentionally provocative.

If you exert a bit of effort, you will find that Muslims eat, sleep, care for their children and live their lives much as everyone else - and most have no interest in proseletyzing to some fanatical and narrow viewpoint.

But that effort would be fueled by your desire to be rid of your hatred being greater than your comfort in holding on to it.
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Wilso
 
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Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 06:17 am
I know one muslim guy - at work. Actually last time I saw him, he was playing a computer game where the object is to shoot down planes trying to crash into the World Trade Center towers.
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snood
 
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Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 06:28 am
Yeah, I see your dilemma. How could any thinking person feel anything but hatred for Muslims?
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Green Witch
 
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Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 07:27 am
Wilso, don't confuse the people with the fanatics. A fanatic comes in all colors and religions and they love your hatred, it feeds them like raw meet to a crocodile. The best way to defeat these people is to stay involved politically and make sure they don't get into power. America gave the fanatic Muslims exactly what they needed to be successful - a fanatic Christian to fuel the flames. I think of it as a battle like Lord of The Rings., the smallest among us can make the biggest difference by refusing to give in to the pressures and becoming like "them".
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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 07:43 am
I find it helpful to, once you've truly decided that certain individuals are so hate filled and off track that there's no help for them, to stop thinking of them as human beings and merely vicious animals with human characteristics. Then you can objectively see them for what they are and treat them accordingly without harboring feelings of hatred or anger, which is bad for you and those around you. You can't save everyone, nor can you bring them around to your point of view so concentrate your energies on things that are a benefit to those who can be helped and those you care about.

The rest of them are pests at most and dangerous predators to be avoided at worst, but certainly not worth creating stress on yourself. They are after all, not people or anything.
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flushd
 
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Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 08:26 am
Hmm. Thought I might share something here. I really don't know if getting to know some muslim folks will necessarily help, unless you are bound and determined to find a way to let the hate go.
Really don't think it matters if the people are hate-worth or not, if you are justified in your anger or not (and you might be). Comes down to what you want for yourself, again, sort of a selfish thing in fact. If they profit by it: well, then so be it, sort of thing.

Anyways, sending calming energy to Wilso.
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OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 06:18 pm
Wilso wrote:
I know one muslim guy - at work. Actually last time I saw him,
he was playing a computer game
where the object is to shoot down planes
trying to crash into the World Trade Center towers.

Did u c in which DIRECTION
his guns were pointed ??
David
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 06:50 pm
Wilso, you are to be congratulated for being aware of the danger of hatred. It can be addictive, especially when you feel a loss of control as people are being killed for insane reasons--hatred is such a strong emotion that it, irrationally and mistakenly, gives one a feeling of power.

It might be somewhat difficult to find a group of Muslims that you couldd become friends with. I remember an old saying from the 60's, "Take an Indian to lunch." It was a perfect description of the rather glib way many people acted while trying to do away with their bigotry.

Rather, perhaps you could read as much as possible about the Islamic religion and culture. There is a blog I have read that broke my heart. It is written by a young woman in Baghdad. I will enclose an excerpt and the link. Hopefully, it will give you some insight into the daily life of a Muslim in her own country as the fanatics start to take over.

In the excerpt, she has been talking about starting the practice of wearing a jihab--something she hadn't done before the war...

Quote:
There are no laws that say we have to wear a hijab (yet), but there are the men in head-to-toe black and the turbans, the extremists and fanatics who were liberated by the occupation, and at some point, you tire of the defiance. You no longer want to be seen. I feel like the black or white scarf I fling haphazardly on my head as I walk out the door makes me invisible to a certain degree- it's easier to blend in with the masses shrouded in black. If you're a female, you don't want the attention- you don't want it from Iraqi police, you don't want it from the black-clad militia man, you don't want it from the American soldier. You don't want to be noticed or seen.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com


As others have said, they are just people, loving their children and families, trying to live as well as possible in a world gone insane because of people very much like the Ku Klux Klan or some of the white supremicist groups here in the US.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 07:13 pm
I think if Wilso is really interested in losing his hate, he can.
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Dec, 2006 07:16 pm
Absolutely, Snood. He really is on his way by taking that first step.
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