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Sat 23 Dec, 2006 10:42 pm
Some recent discussions dealing with some of the far right fanatics on this site actually made me feel sick to the stomach. The glib way they can discuss and actually call for some nation they don't like to be nuked, for hundreds of thousands, or possibly millions of people to be instantly vapourised, reveals them for the ugly, hate filled people that they really are. It suddenly dawned on me that my attitude to islam is not too far removed from how they feel towards just about everyone. For a person who is about to be a father, this is unacceptable. I do fear muslims greatly. I don't believe there'll be peace in any part of this world while that religion exists. But how do I lose hatred, and more importantly, not let it infect my children?
Perhaps it could help you by thinking of this issue as a reaction to certain portion of fundamentalist ..extreme islamic terrorists. That is not all of Islamic people...no matter what the press and media would have you believe.
I agree with ragman on that.
Many of the world's actors are flying on their own, and their followers are sucked into the stream. Most people everywhere want good lives for their families.
Or maybe you can substutite caution/wariness for hatred.
hatred
I find it hard not to do the same thing when applied to our domestic leader -- George Bush. Every time I see his smirking face, I get nauseated ... to think that this man came into power they way that he did misdirects and misrepresents our fine nation..and democracy. The depths the leadership of this country has sunken to in his name...disgusts me to the point of hatred.
Oh yes,,,FWIW..I'm a veteran...Viet Nam era...who has voted in every election since I was able to do so...1971.
Re: hatred
Ragman wrote:I find it hard not to do the same thing when applied to our domestic leader -- George Bush. Every time I see his smirking face, I get nauseated ... to think that this man came into power they way that he did misdirects and misrepresents our fine nation..and democracy. The depths the leadership of this country has sunken to in his name...disgusts me to the point of hatred.
Oh yes,,,FWIW..I'm a veteran...Viet Nam era...who has voted in every election since I was able to do so...1971.
John Howard has a similar effect on me. But I don't want to turn this into a political discussion.
roger wrote:Or maybe you can substutite caution/wariness for hatred.
Good advice.
I agree with you on all that too, Ragman.
some of us vary in the details, and therein lies the banana.
Think of me as strongly anti-bomb (and multiply that), suspecting motives for intervention from whomever throughout the globe.... while acknowledging need as populaces are hurled to being starved.
I am not one wit interested in containment theories, least of all for oil and all the other power plays. Am wondering if anyone at all cares what are the common concerns.
My advice is to meet a muslim person, meet two muslim people, meet a whole family.
There are people who could be called extremist christians, Ku Klux Klan. Other christians deny thier claim to christianity, but they consider themselves to be christians.
It's the same with Muslims, they feel the same way towards extremists.
Not too long ago I was afraid of 'muslims' and then I realized, I was letting a fear that a large media news outlet created steer my outlook on life.
Meet a muslim, be freed.
Wilso,
No talk of "the far right" or "our leaders" will solve this for you because such phrases continue the essence of conflict. All "labels", whether they be political, religious or national serve to segment social reality into "us" and "them". Your epiphany may require you start by shedding your own labels but history implies you may remain in the minority.
With due respect to the last respondent, the suggestion that you specifically "get to know a muslim" merely perpetuates the "reality" of labelling !
Re: hatred
Ragman wrote:I find it hard not to do the same thing when applied to our domestic leader -- George Bush. Every time I see his smirking face, I get nauseated ... to think that this man came into power they way that he did misdirects and misrepresents our fine nation..and democracy. The depths the leadership of this country has sunken to in his name...disgusts me to the point of hatred.
Oh yes,,,FWIW..I'm a veteran...Viet Nam era...who has voted in every election since I was able to do so...1971.
I don't intend to be rude, you have the right to your opinion, but hatred is such a strong word to use. I understand you are a veteran and do vote. Well I am an Army brat and also vote. I also live by many military bases and I talk to the soldiers (enlisted and reserve) and ask them what they think about going to Iraq and Afghanistan. Who better to ask then the ones who have been there not just once or twice, but volunteer to go back a third time. I voted for President Bush and would do so again. If you have such a strong opinion about the leadership of this country than why not do something about it?
Just to add something else. I am not pro war. I do not like any kind of war. My Father was shot twice in WWII and my Opa was a prisoner of war. I agreed with the actions our government took and still do. When the bombing of Iraq started I actually cried and though how sad. I have traveled outside this country and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I love this country. If I feel something is wrong, I research it all I can and then take what steps I am able to change it. Sometimes it has worked and sometimes it hasn't. I am not a quitter though. I do not like to give up. I just wanted to point out that most people want the same things in life (happiness, health, a home, food, a job, and a safe place for their family).
I don't like the "us" and "them". We are all humans with different values. I have to leave now to attend to some other things. I hope you enjoy your day or night.
Re: An epiphany - losing hatred - need help
Wilso wrote:Some recent discussions dealing with some of the far right fanatics on this site actually made me feel sick to the stomach. The glib way they can discuss and actually call for some nation they don't like to be nuked, for hundreds of thousands, or possibly millions of people to be instantly vapourised, reveals them for the ugly, hate filled people that they really are. It suddenly dawned on me that my attitude to islam is not too far removed from how they feel towards just about everyone. For a person who is about to be a father, this is unacceptable. I do fear muslims greatly. I don't believe there'll be peace in any part of this world while that religion exists. But how do I lose hatred, and more importantly, not let it infect my children?
Talk to a couple of flesh-and-blood Muslims. I find its hard to maintain hatred based on some idealized notions or caricatures, in the face of real people. It might be easier to see similarities and forget all the supposed differences, if you just found a couple Muslims and talked with them about whatever.
Re: hatred
Ragman wrote: If you have such a strong opinion about the leadership of this country than why not do something about it?
Your assumption that I haven't done something about it is odious and inaccurate. I am doing something about it (and have in past)..and will in the future [campaign against the WORST and MOST DANGEROUS President the USA has EVER had]. Participation in this forum is but a small portion of what can be done. However, Bush is not solely responsible for this mess...Congress is also to blame. I had helped campaign agaisnt that do-nothing Congress. Luckily, with our concerted efforts, a lot of those rascals were tossed out of office. Our VOTES and activities do count! The leadership of this country is and will be held accountable for attempting to force Democracy down the throats of an unwilling nation.
I now kindly redirect this discussion back to where it was heading (non-political).
Wilso, I had no idea that you were a father to be. Congratulations, Aussie.
As I have often observed, it is fear that is our worst enemy and love is reflected in love.
Hi, Wilso! I've been so happy for you this year. All of the great things finally happening for you really lifted me. I know the comment of which you speak, and I thought you were kidding or being sarcastic. It just didn't fit with the Wilso I know.
I've never gone for the media/political portrayal of Muslims since 9/11 so I can't relate to that hatred. But, we all of some area of hatred in our lives with which we have to deal, especially when we realize it may be an unrational hatred passed on to our children.
I don't have any advice better than what a couple of people have already suggested. Learn about the struggle between Islam and Christianity, the power plays between east and west, the players involved. Then try switching the associations and making it Christians attacking Iraqi Muslims for no reason instead of Muslims attacking the US.
Finally, remember a couple of things: this struggle has been going on for thousands of years. It isn't something that can be fixed or changed over night. And, people are people. We're all just trying to make our way through life. Some do so better than others, and some will not get to the end with any better understanding than with which they started. Our task is to make sure we, individually, aren't one of the latter.
Wilso, I can relate. How to uproot bonds of hate? I've got my prejudice too.
I remember my father telling me that when he found out I was coming into the world,"'it put priorities where they should be".
Hate isn't a high priority. <smiling>
Honestly friend, what has helped me the most with my sometimes tremendous amount of hatred has been to keep upmost in my mind, when at all possible, the effects of hatred on myself to myself.
You have a little one on the way, so you might think of him or her.
It is a selfish way to go about it, I suppose, in that I put out of my mind how it might affect others.
All I concern myself with is how it affects me.
Hatred feels a lot like anger to me. Blood pressure rises, rational thought flies out the window, limbs tense and ready to scratch reactively. Like a little animal caged.
I don't like being that way, I don't like feeling that way. It literally makes sick, as you said.
Hatred is a choice. The way I figure it, it might pop up now and again, but the trick is to be aware to it and to make a firm stand not to allow it to poison you.
Talking about it to people who don't judge the worth of a person by feelings has helped too. Hatred is rather natural, I think, it is how we deal with it that counts.
In response to the initial post only.. ( as I have not read any farther)
I have several friends who are Muslim .
And the religion is NOTHING like what you see and hear plastered on tv.
Unfortunately, as with any group, you only see and hear the loudest members. And , right now, that is terrorists.
Terrorism is NOT an acceptable behavior to them. Unfortunately, they are too powerful ( terrorist groups) to take down with one simple step.
Just as people bash americans for being greedy and arrogant, not all americans are like that.
As an american, it bothers me that the biggest image of america available right now is george bush.
But, he is NOTHING like most of the people in this country.
Same for Muslim/Islam/Arabic people.
They are not Osama . They are not lining up to die on a bus with bombs strapped to their chests. The few who ARE , are the only ones you will see on the news , because they make the news. Not the thousands , or MILLIONS of normal, everyday, working , peaceful people.
2 of my Muslim friends have seen over 200 people migrate to America , Mexico, and Canada to get away from the terrorists. 200!!!
Apparently, this is a huge concern for the entire nation.. but THAT isn't covered on the news..
just the bombers.
And, if you think about it, you hear of 1-5 people each month who are doing stupid crap like that..
1 - 5 out of how many MILLIONS?
That is a pretty small percentage of the nation of Islam, Muslims and all middle eastern cultures .
But, I too... after all my ranting.. feel the same way.
It scares me to think that we are able to pinpoint one specific group of people as being the 'problem/terrorists"
But, i wont get on that topic yet.
I need to finish my coffee first..
It's not just terrorism that concerns me. In fact, that's not really the root of it. I'm far more affected by a poster on this site who has stated that she thinks death is a fitting punishment for apostasy. It's fear turning into something else.
I get it .
Of course.. AFTER I read the whole thread.
(sigh)
I usually do that when I post before my coffee has kicked in.
sorry..
Wilso wrote:It's not just terrorism that concerns me. In fact, that's not really the root of it. I'm far more affected by a poster on this site who has stated that she thinks death is a fitting punishment for apostasy. It's fear turning into something else.
Are you angry? Find it nearly impossible to accept such a position?
That poster must be trembling inside to hold a view like that.
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