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Questions For Which Evolutionists Have No Answers

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 04:57 am
farmerman wrote:
I have distinguished the "Post" from the "Poster". Im not saying that gungasnake is a stupid midieval minded wart, not at all. I said his post, which clearly is evidence of its own merit, is


Okay, have it your way. You are not an adolescent, towel snapping knuckle dragging mouth breather, but your approach and words are sure reminiscent of same.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 05:04 am
Thats the spirit, subtleness always wins the day. However,I, having already mined that rich vein for its humor content, you, by copying my style immediately thereafter, merely shows your lack of creativity. Smile


ANyway, "the snake" is prme fair game because his posts ALWAYS begin with ridicule and always lack any sense of civility. So, being a hall monitor, should you wish to appoint yourself same, has a requirement to be fair minded.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 05:24 am
There ya go - stay consistent. "He did it first, ma!"

Creativity, maturity, brilliant analytical mind - judges?

Ten!!!!

No hall monitor here. I get as nasty about George Bush as anyone gets about God and Darwin. The zealots on both sides just seem to think of themselves as so much more "evolved" than the other. It's just funny.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 05:58 am
So therefore yer point is what?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 06:22 am
Morality didn't evolve. The basic ideas of good religions are imprinted on most of us biologically, which is the only reason that slammite societies and/or secular humanist societies like Canada or England work at all.

In particular there is no set of laws which would suffice to govern a nation of psychopaths or a nation of people who honestly believed Charles Darwins ideas and was willing to act on them. Several of our own fouding fathers said as much at the time of the constitutional convention, i.e. that the constitution would be adequate for the governance of a god-fearing and righteous people but not for governing a bunch of hoodlums.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 06:38 am
gungasnake wrote:
Morality didn't evolve. The basic ideas of good religions are imprinted on most of us biologically, which is the only reason that slammite societies and/or secular humanist societies like Canada or England work at all.

In particular there is no set of laws which would suffice to govern a nation of psychopaths or a nation of people who honestly believed Charles Darwins ideas and was willing to act on them. Several of our own fouding fathers said as much at the time of the constitutional convention, i.e. that the constitution would be adequate for the governance of a god-fearing and righteous people but not for governing a bunch of hoodlums.


None of which affects the validity of evolution as a biological fact.

And morality did evolve. It is a result of compassion and empathy which are highly selectable traits in social mammals like humans.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 07:55 pm
farmerman wrote:
So therefore yer point is what?


That you're funny.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2007 10:27 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
Morality didn't evolve. The basic ideas of good religions are imprinted on most of us biologically, which is the only reason that slammite societies and/or secular humanist societies like Canada or England work at all.

In particular there is no set of laws which would suffice to govern a nation of psychopaths or a nation of people who honestly believed Charles Darwins ideas and was willing to act on them. Several of our own fouding fathers said as much at the time of the constitutional convention, i.e. that the constitution would be adequate for the governance of a god-fearing and righteous people but not for governing a bunch of hoodlums.


None of which affects the validity of evolution as a biological fact.

And morality did evolve. It is a result of compassion and empathy which are highly selectable traits in social mammals like humans.


They say that there is less genetic variation in the entire human race than in a typical group of African monkeys; nonetheless according to whose verison of it you read, psychopaths (who do not experience empathy) are somewhere between one in thirty and one in every hundred or so people around us.

A necessary evolved trait like that would not be missing in that many people.

The ability to model other people in our minds like the ability to model sequences of events, or to narrate, is some sort of an innate ability we had to learn to use and develop after the flood. That involved some sort of a rewiring of the human mind which is not perfect yet.

For those without this capacity, i.e. for psychopaths like Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, or SlicKKK KKKlintler, the nature of morality has to be written down somewhere; otherwise they just make it up as they go along. For the rest of us it helps to have it written down, but basically it's built in.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 05:09 am
gungasnake wrote:
They say that there is less genetic variation in the entire human race than in a typical group of African monkeys; nonetheless according to whose verison of it you read, psychopaths (who do not experience empathy) are somewhere between one in thirty and one in every hundred or so people around us.

A necessary evolved trait like that would not be missing in that many people.


It's not missing. It's just being overridden by learned behavior. Unlike most other animals, humans have a strong conscious and subconscious override to inherent behaviors.

gungasnake wrote:
The ability to model other people in our minds like the ability to model sequences of events, or to narrate, is some sort of an innate ability we had to learn to use and develop after the flood.


What flood? The only global event which compressed the human gene pool was the Toba eruption 74k years ago.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 11:36 am
rosborne979 wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
They say that there is less genetic variation in the entire human race than in a typical group of African monkeys; nonetheless according to whose verison of it you read, psychopaths (who do not experience empathy) are somewhere between one in thirty and one in every hundred or so people around us.

A necessary evolved trait like that would not be missing in that many people.


It's not missing. It's just being overridden by learned behavior......


That's totally wrong. You might want to obtain a copy of Robert Hare's "Without Conscience", which is pretty much the authoritative book on psychopaths and what makes them tick. Hare notes that he and a couple of his grad students once submitted a paper to a refereed journal and had it rejected with the comment that several encephalogram plots which the paper contained were clearly not from humans; the plots were in fact from psychopaths.

I bought a copy of the book because there were a baker's dozen or so people I'd dealt with and read about over a period of years who I'd always figured were seriously abnormal, and this included a deceased stepbrother, a former roommate, both KKKlintons, the couple you read about in Canada, Homolka and Bernardo, a former business acquaintance of my brothers who has a whole page in the Va. code book on the subject of modifying odometers in connection with the wholesale auto trade dedicated to himself, and a handfull of others.

Of the group, I'm fairly well convinced that the only one who would not qualify as a psychopath to some extent or other would be Karla Homolka.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 05:29 am
gunga say
Quote:
The ability to model other people in our minds like the ability to model sequences of events, or to narrate, is some sort of an innate ability we had to learn to use and develop after the flood.




Very Happy

How charmingly naive. We have this little legend about a flood, and its so nicely engrained as an historical "fact" that the mere lack of evidence of same is no problem to the followers of Biblical literalism.
Id feel a bit foolish parading this kind of conclusion in front of an audience of skeptics. Just be aware that , youre getting laughed off the stage.

I was at Penn State yesterday , listening to the new degrees that the College of Earth and Mineral SCiences is now offering, and its an exciting time for geo- science (what with all the evidence being found regarding earth history). Alas, nobody is offering a degree in Flood Geology, even though the MS and PhD in "Museum STudies" does offer a series of seminars on "origins Legends through History", wherein they cover , not only Abraham and the Patriarchs but the similarity and differences of origins stories from the vaster farther reaches of the world. Some have a "flood legend" but many more do not.
The only accurate statement made about "historical floods" is that they were outgrowths of actual local events that were seen(and possibly recorded i legend) by their habitues.
No Flood, no Creation legend eh?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 06:44 am
Guess not - same as if you can't see God with a telescope, there ain't one.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 07:27 am
farmerman wrote:

How charmingly naive. We have this little legend about a flood, and its so nicely engrained as an historical "fact" that the mere lack of evidence of same is no problem to the followers of Biblical literalism.
Id feel a bit foolish parading this kind of conclusion in front of an audience of skeptics. Just be aware that , youre getting laughed off the stage.

I was at Penn State yesterday , listening to the new degrees that the College of Earth and Mineral SCiences is now offering, and its an exciting time for geo- science (what with all the evidence being found regarding earth history). Alas, nobody is offering a degree in Flood Geology...


http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/Assets/blowhard.jpg


Best answer on the web comes more from the neo-velikovskiites than the creationists...

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/floods/mfloods.html


Quote:

....One of the problems in Velikovskian research has been the inability to distinguish between catastrophes that occurred close in time to one another. It is also difficult to distinguish the different time frames of the worldwide floods. Immanuel Velikovsky documented mythological and geophysical evidence of a worldwide flood occurring 3,500 years ago.1 He also spoke of earlier catastrophes that produced immense global floods; such floods would have left distinctive evidence.

The evidence I present below is a mlange of data regarding more than one global flood. Apparently, the earlier global floods occurred when major icecaps covered the continents and later floods occurred after these were destroyed. Recent findings verify that such global floods occurred and negate the uniformitarian argument that the flood evidence indicates only local flood episodes. The basic uniformitarian argument is that the great floods were unique events caused by ice-dammed lakes unleashed when the ice dams broke. However, if individual, localized floods occurred repeatedly during the last Ice Age, they would have washed away the whale fossils found on or near the earth surface. However, whale bones and other marine fossils have been found far inland, without having been either destroyed or eroded down to tiny fragments. This strongly supports the global flood hypothesis and contradicts the local flood theory. This evidence fully supports Velikovsky's hypothesis....



Basic reality is that loess and the gigantic muck layers you find in the Northern hemisphere are both major evidence of one and possible more than one global flood.

Quote:

....All the supposed glacial floods described above flowed south but did not generate either the amount or depth of muck found around the Arctic Ocean. Again, this indicates that the original flood flowed northward and dropped most of its debris and sediment into and around the Arctic Ocean. The backflow traveled southward, breaking up the icecap, over the land and into other oceans. This backflow has been described as the floods occurring from the Washington scablands to Siberia's Altay Mountains.

However, this backflow carried with it less massive sediment particles, or loess. The loess is found south of the Pleistocene icecaps as a broad band across Europe, Asia, the United States and parts of southern Canada--between the 40 and 70 north latitudes. Southern hemispheric loess deposits are found in the Argentinean pampas, southwestern Australia, New South Wales and New Zealand. The band of loess in the northern hemisphere is broken in many places and is missing from the far eastern end of Siberia, which experienced the largest flood. However, south of the Siberian flood, in China, some of the largest loess deposits on Earth are found. This, of course, would be congruent with a large Siberian flood.

There are two theories for the formation of the loess: The establishment consensus theory, based on uniformitarian concepts, suggests that loess originated from glaciers and was laid down by wind currents over tens of thousands of years. However, boulders too large to have been carried by the wind are found all through loess deposits. Aeolian theory advocates suggest that, after the loess was deposited by wind currents, massive glacial floods moved it to new areas--thus explaining the nature of boulders, freshwater clams and snails found in deposits.

However, there is decisive evidence that the loess was not laid down gradually over tens of thousands of years. The loess contains Ice Age animal remains. Since loess had to have been the source of herbivore and snail plant food, then plants and trees had to have grown on the loess over long timespans. Today, in rainfall and temperate regions, grass, shrubs and trees are found growing in the loess' top layer--as can be seen in photographs taken of these regions. Loess is well known as a promoter of plant growth and is the source of China's river valley fertility. Therefore, over time, the loess soil in which these plants grew would produce a rich, dark humus or loam throughout the entire deposit. Over these large timespans, as the loess built up, layer upon layer of vegetation would decay into humus to be buried gradually by new aeolian-borne loess. But this is denied by the evidence. As J. K. Charlesworth pointed out in 1957, there is "some dissent [with the aeolian theory of loess formation] because the entire profile should resemble a humus horizon, [yet] the tubes [in the loess] have scarcely a trace of vegetation."76

Even if some of the loess, after being built up, had been moved by gigantic glacial floods to its present locations, it would be filled with humus and plant remains from top to bottom. What the aeolian advocates expect one to accept as probable is that glacial floods washed away the loess from the humus and vegetative remains, leaving these behind. Only by ignoring the evidence which supports a strictly fluvial origin for loess have the aeolian proponents been able to maintain their theory. No aeolian, gradualistic production of loess will create deposits nearly devoid of humus and other decayed vegetation, even by invoking later floods. ...
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 10:50 am
gunga say
Quote:
Basic reality is that loess and the gigantic muck layers you find in the Northern hemisphere are both major evidence of one and possible more than one global flood.
.

1Loess is a "WINDBORN (usually calcareous) but mixed grained material that often contains reoots of LAND PLANTS. It is generally understood that loess is a continental WINDBORNE material that, in the US covers some areas of the Mississippi Valley and a few northern tire states in the midwest. Its also found in Europe, Asia and in S America. What that has to do with anything I dont know

2Where are all these "MUCK" deposist? In order for a worldwide flood to have been even considered by real geoscientists, there would certainly ahve to be evidence of correlation of mucks and stratigraphic continuity like flysch deposits from suboceanic slides.

Nobody in their right mind belived anything that Velikovsky had to say. He isnt worthy to lick the boots of a decently trained geophysicist of today. The guy was a moron and a cartoon of science.

PS, I like your class picture, why are you floating ? are you getting sexual gratification with that hose up your ass?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 12:21 pm
farmerman wrote:
gunga say
Quote:
Basic reality is that loess and the gigantic muck layers you find in the Northern hemisphere are both major evidence of one and possible more than one global flood.
.

1Loess is a "WINDBORN....


Learn how to read, blowhard. The man answered that in the explanation above.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:20 pm
No dipshit, your quoted source beleieevs that loess is a riverine deposit and that is just gobbleygook. Loess deposits are internally stratified with clearly dune like stratiraphy.These deposits lie atop other paleosols or rock structures and have internal stratigraphy that clearly demonstartes that the deposits were conformaby deposited on top of the substrate, not "carried in" by some "Bozo flood."
The mineral grains in loess are fresh and angular (a clear indicator that they were deposited from abraded source material. In te Moravian and Chinese loess deposits , many successive loess layers are separated by up to 10 unique pleosols that indicate that the source material was ablated and wind carried to form separate deposits (probably due to successive ice advances ) A variant is the "lee desert" loesses of the Northeast Sahara which are derived from barchan dune deposits : and ocean loess that are deposited as continental dust deposits are captured in shallow intertidal basins (Porter 1987, and Porter 1987).
If you wish to learn a bit about what you copy, those two are good beginning resources. Ill be happy to quote you some others as your undersatndings become more advanced.


Remember one thing, when you post about geology, you are exepending everything you know, not everything I know. If you were a mechanic, Id yield to your superior knowledge about cars. Im not yielding to your inferior knowledge about geology. I wish I had you in a classroom where Id make you understand everything you mine from AIG or whatever douche bag creationist source from which you extract your "knowledge"


Velikovsky, reeeeaaaallyy, Next your gonna be quoting JK Rowling or Arthur Conan Doyle.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:56 pm
farmerman wrote:

Remember one thing, when you post about geology, you are exepending everything you know, not everything I know.


The moral of the story is -

Don't get into a rock throwing contest with farmer.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 03:19 pm
No . . . you're kidding. Gunga Din quoted Velikovsky ? ! ? ! ?

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Carl Sagan once commented that he knew Velikovsky's "science" was ****, but that he had always been impressed by his knowledge of ancient literature and inscriptions. Then, at an academic cocktail party, he met an historian who made a statement to him to the effect that, of course, Velikovsky's knowledge of ancient literature and inscriptions was non-existent, but that he had always been impressed by Velikovsky's grasp of science.

At the risk of repeating myself . . .


Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 07:15 pm
Setanta wrote:
No . . . you're kidding. Gunga Din quoted Velikovsky ? ! ? ! ?

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .


You might want to try to teach the blowhard to read. I never said anything about quoting Velikovsky; I mentioned the term neo-velikovskiite or some such. The gentleman's name is Ginenthal, from NY and he strikes me as a fairly serious scholar, at least from the one article. That (serious scholarship) is something blowhards wouldn't know anything about.

Other than that, Carl Sagan was a sort of a jerkoff. According to Sagan, we're all dead from the runaway greenhouse and nuclear winter which was caused from the gulf war in 1991.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 07:47 pm
A "serious scholar" who uses Velikovsky as a primary source, that just about shuts the door on his credibility.
"Worlds In Collision" is a piece of **** that almost everyone has read while stoned. The difference is, the vast majority of us didnt really take any of it seriously.
Quote:
I never said anything about quoting Velikovsky;
Then why did you bring him up without attribute? Do you normally take credit for bullshit until someone calls you on it?
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