Australian Broadcasting Corporation
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION:
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1885198.htm
Broadcast: 29/03/2007
John Clarke, Bryan Dawe and the Hicks trial
Reporter: Bryan Dawe
KERRY O'BRIEN: Finally, John Clarke and Bryan Dawe on the Hicks trial.
BRYAN DAWE: Mr Downer, thank you very much for your time.
JOHN CLARKE: It's very good to be with you, Bryan, and good evening.
BRYAN DAWE: Can you explain to me the legal process we're seeing with the David Hicks trial?
JOHN CLARKE: Mr Hicks has now, of course, pleaded guilty to providing material support for a terrorist organisation.
BRYAN DAWE: But Mr Downer, wasn't pleading guilty the only way he was going to get home?
JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, I would have thought if you plead guilty to something, it's because you did it.
BRYAN DAWE: And what if you plead not guilty?
JOHN CLARKE: Well, if you lie on oath, Bryan, they're going to chuck the book at you. I wouldn't advise you to do that. That could be dangerous.
BRYAN DAWE: Can you explain the legal process to us?
JOHN CLARKE: The auspices here, Bryan, are those of a US constituted military commission. Have you seen the artist's impressions drawings? That's very much the situation as you see it.
BRYAN DAWE: This is David Hicks here?
JOHN CLARKE: That's David Hicks here, this is the judge over here.
BRYAN DAWE: This is Major Mori?
JOHN CLARKE: Major Mori, yes, indeed.
BRYAN DAWE: Who's that there?
JOHN CLARKE: That there is the White Rabbit, slightly blurred because he's running late.
BRYAN DAWE: Where's Alice?
JOHN CLARKE: Alice is over here.
BRYAN DAWE: Behind the red queen.
JOHN CLARKE: Indeed.
BRYAN DAWE: How does it all work? This is not coming under US law, is it, this trial?
JOHN CLARKE: This is a constituted, slightly different jurisdiction. It's a US military commission, that's being conducted in a jail in Cuba.
BRYAN DAWE: And how is it different?
JOHN CLARKE: Whereas normally, Bryan, you would be charged with something and then you would be tried and if you were found guilty you would then be sentenced.
BRYAN DAWE: How's this one different, then?
JOHN CLARKE: In this case, slightly different jurisdiction, Bryan, you serve your sentence, and then, after some years of that, you're charged.
BRYAN DAWE: Mmm.
JOHN CLARKE: And then, perhaps, you're tried.
BRYAN DAWE: And what are you charged with?
JOHN CLARKE: Oh, anything. In this case, perhaps, providing material support for a terrorist organisation.
BRYAN DAWE: Yeah. And where do you serve your sentence?
JOHN CLARKE: In a room about sort of this by this. It's very attractive, affording excellent vistas of the toilet, for example.
BRYAN DAWE: When are you tried?
JOHN CLARKE: You're tried after you're charged.
BRYAN DAWE: After you're served your sentence?
JOHN CLARKE: Having served the majority, for some years, maybe five or six years.
BRYAN DAWE: What do you do when you're charged?
JOHN CLARKE: Oh, you plead guilty.
BRYAN DAWE: Why do you plead guilty?
JOHN CLARKE: Because you've already served your sentence, you don't want to be tried. You've probably had enough by then. Time to go home.
BRYAN DAWE: Novelty has worn off?
JOHN CLARKE: The thrill has gone, Bryan, let's get out of here.
BRYAN DAWE: So why didn't the Australian Government get him out, Mr Downer?
JOHN CLARKE: Everybody is entitled to a fair trial. That is a fundamental right.
BRYAN DAWE: Mr Downer, thanks for your time.
JOHN CLARKE: Now you just plead guilty, Bryan, and I think I can get you out of here.