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Bring David Hicks home (from Guantanamo) before Christmas!

 
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:14 am
cjhsa wrote:
like letting Charlie Manson out on his own recognizance so he can attend the Oscars...


Now theres a really good idea!
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:16 am
I wonder if the indirect mention of "The Family" will attract the attention of the moderation staff?
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 07:37 am
cjhsa wrote:
plus, he's an enemy combatant. Releasing him into the civilian population is like letting Charlie Manson out on his own recognizance so he can attend the Oscars...


Well doesn't your justice system suck, he was never charged with being an enemy combatant, only with aiding terrorists, and that was a bodgy plea deal where he'd already spent 6 years in solitary confinement, without charge, so had no bargaining power at all. But poor old Charlie, who still languishes in prison is at least a merkin. And if your judgement is anything to go by, hasn't done anything any worse than Hicks.

Your head is firmly up your ass. Yeah yeah I know. You didn't leave your balls at the door. Go give Nugent a blow job.

See you in the censorium.


___________________
A hamster stole my sig.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 08:16 am
cjhsa wrote:
Builder wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
So you plan to welcome him back into society with open arms msolga?


I do, and so should you, if you are really a patriotic American.


He's not an American.... plus, he's an enemy combatant. Releasing him into the civilian population is like letting Charlie Manson out on his own recognizance so he can attend the Oscars...


If you had even the slightest grasp on history, you'd know that before the declaration of the "war on terror", David Hicks was actually fighting on the side of truth, justice, and the American way. Al Queda was created, funded, trained, and equipped by the CIA to oust the Russians from Afghanistan.

Hicks joined up shortly before the organisation was deemed to be harbouring terrorists. That makes him an ally.

Poor bastard was caught in the US crossfire, like many more before him, and many more after him.

Read your history, dude. :wink:
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:35 pm
Anyone vaguely surprised by these allegations?

....that the US & Oz governments most likely did a deal over Hicks? (His lengthy incarceration at Guantanamo Bay without a trial was becoming an extremely hot issue for the Oz government (Liberal Party) during this election year.
He pleaded guilty to whatever was required in a US military show trial & was then speedily repatriated to an Oz prison. Conveniently to be released only after our federal election (Nov 24th)!

Convenient, hey? :wink:
:

msolga wrote:
Rudd wants PM's statement on Hicks plea bargain
Posted 2 hours 6 minutes ago
Updated 1 hour 33 minutes ago


Federal Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd wants Prime Minister John Howard to reveal the content of any discussions he had with the US Vice-President Dick Cheney about releasing David Hicks from Guantanamo Bay.

An article in Harper's Magazine quotes an unnamed US military officer as saying that Vice-President Cheney and Mr Howard agreed on the plea bargain.

The officer described the treatment of the issue as demoralising and was quoted as saying the whole process had disintegrated into a political charade.

After five years of detention in Guantanamo Bay, a deal was sealed for 32-year-old Hicks to serve a nine-month prison sentence in Australia, subject to him pleading guilty to a charge of providing material support for terrorism.

Hicks agreed to the deal in March and is now due for release from Adelaide's Yatala Prison at the end of the year.

After the deal was announced, Mr Howard denied any involvement in the plea bargain.

"We didn't impose the sentence, the sentence was imposed by the military commission and the plea bargain was worked out between the military prosecution and Mr Hicks' lawyers," Mr Howard said in March.

Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer denies Mr Howard struck a deal to have Hicks released but Mr Rudd says he has his suspicions.

"I would be very interested to hear Mr Howard's statement on what the Vice-President has had to say today. That's the first point," he said.

"Secondly in relation to Mr Hicks I have never defended anyone when it comes to terrorist acts."

http://www.abc.com.au/news/stories/2007/10/23/2068009.htm
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Oct, 2007 04:51 pm
... & more today from <gasp> The AUSTRALIAN newspaper! A very interesting article indeed!:

..... While the Prime Minister yesterday denied the reports in Harper's that he and Mr Cheney had organised a plea deal for Hicks, the US official in charge of the prosecution lent support to claims of political interference in the case.

Speaking to The Australian, former chief prosecutor Colonel Morris Davis said he was subject to continuing high-level political interference in his handling of the Hicks case.

"In my opinion, as things stand right now, I think it's a disgrace to call it a military commission - it's a political commission," he said.

Harper's quoted an unnamed military official saying "one of our staffers was present when Vice-President Cheney interfered directly to get Hicks's plea bargain deal".

"He did it, apparently, as part of a deal cut with Howard," the official was quoted as saying.


Yesterday, it was also revealed Australian Federal Police might apply for a control order for Hicks upon his release from Adelaide's Yatala prison at the end of the year.

Hicks was transferred from Guantanamo Bay in Cuba to Yatala in May to serve his seven-month sentence, which was secured as part of a plea bargain with US military prosecutors that involved a guilty plea on a single terror offence. .......

Cheney 'struck Hicks deal' with PM:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22638958-601,00.html
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 12:54 am
msolga wrote:
Anyone vaguely surprised by these allegations?

....that the US & Oz governments most likely did a deal over Hicks? (His lengthy incarceration at Guantanamo Bay without a trial was becoming an extremely hot issue for the Oz government (Liberal Party) during this election year.
He pleaded guilty to whatever was required in a US military show trial & was then speedily repatriated to an Oz prison. Conveniently to be released only after our federal election (Nov 24th)!

Convenient, hey? :wink:
:




Wow. The ever-cringe-worthy Alexander Downer finally fesses up, msolga.

This from The West Australian today, Wednesday October 24th. Page 14.

The Federal Government pressed the US Government to offer a plea bargain for David Hicks, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer said yesterday.


But here's the curly bit:

Mr. Howard declined to comment yesterday, except to refer journalists to his earlier answers. Mr Downer was more forthcoming.

"Of course we intervened," Mr Downer said. " The fact of a plea bargain was something we certainly promoted but the plea bargain itself was a matter between the prosecution and the defence."


So there you have it, msolga. Just like I said when it happened. A plea bargain. :wink:

Hung, drawn, and quartered. And once more, Howard passes the buck. :wink:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:02 am
But, Builder, they merely promoted the idea. They didn't actually intervene!

There is a difference, you know! :wink:
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:05 am
Ya get the difference, then? Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:10 am
No, either do I.

Political-speak bull dust! Rolling Eyes
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Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:15 am
Bloody double-speak. It'll be the death of me. Laughing
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 01:19 am
Builder wrote:
Bloody double-speak. It'll be the death of me. Laughing


Not just you, Builder, trust me!

My kingdom for an honest politician!
Rare as hen's teeth!
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Oct, 2007 06:32 am
And it took six years of political pressure to even get them to plea bargain stage.

The majority of prisoners in Gitmo were bought by american forces from paramilitaries - small wonder there haven't been any trials - imagine the evidence trail: 'well shucks, them turbaned guys said the taxi driver was an ayrab so we beat him to death.'
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 01:55 am
hingehead wrote:
And it took six years of political pressure to even get them to plea bargain stage.


...Yes. A really concerted & determined grass roots campaign (led by GetUp, legal groups & others) was necessary to convince the Australian government that they should take some responsibility for an Australian citizen in this hideous situation. It wasn't until the government thought this would well influence their chances in the next election that they finally acted!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 01:29 am
McClelland gives green light for Hicks control order
ABC news online
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200705/r145125_507400.jpg
If the control order is approved, it will limit Hicks' movements once he leaves Adelaide's Yatala prison. (File photo) (7.30 Report)

Federal Attorney-General Robert McClelland has given the Australian Federal Police (AFP) the go-ahead to seek a control order against former Guantanamo Bay inmate David Hicks.

Neither Mr McClelland's office nor the AFP would comment on this development, saying it is an operational matter.

But the ABC understands the Attorney-General has granted the AFP permission to seek a control order on Hicks before the Federal Magistrates Court in Adelaide.

If the control order is approved, it will limit Hicks' movements once he leaves Adelaide's Yatala prison on December 29.

He will be under a curfew and will have to report three times a week to police in Adelaide.

Hicks has served a nine-month sentence in Australia after pleading guilty to one terrorism charge in a controversial hearing at Guantanamo Bay.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/10/2114828.htm
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 03:32 am
Gotta.de.detter.tham.Guamtamamo!

Apparemtly.he's.to.de.givem.a.mew.idemtity,.ad.will.e.studyimg(questiommark)
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 04:29 am
(Crikey! Still no resolution to the keyboard problem, Deb!)

Sure, it's better than Guatanamo. (Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, too! :wink: )

But I'd argue that after 5 years in that place he's well & truly paid for his "crimes". Say nothing of a further 9 months in goal here, till the election is over!

I think I would have been happier if our new Australian government had made a fresh assessment of the reality of the "threat" he now poses, rather than simply following on from where Howard & the US authorities left off. His "hearing" was a farce (more a political fix than anything else) & if he hadn't pleaded guilty he'd most likely still be locked up at Guantanamo. We all understood what happened & why.
However, because he pleaded guilty he continues to be treated as a "threat". It goes on & on ....

Speaking of Guantanamo, new information has recently emerged about the previous Australian government's knowledge (despite denials) of Habib's situation, prior to him being sent off from Pakistan & tortured in Egypt. And then ending up at Guantanamo, too.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Dec, 2007 04:45 am
msolga wrote:
(Crikey! Still no resolution to the keyboard problem, Deb!)

Sure, it's better than Guatanamo. (Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, too! :wink: )

But I'd argue that after 5 years in that place he's well & truly paid for his "crimes". Say nothing of a further 9 months in goal here, till the election is over!

I think I would have been happier if our new Australian government had made a fresh assessment of the reality of the "threat" he now poses, rather than simply following on from where Howard & the US authorities left off. His "hearing" was a farce (more a political fix than anything else) & if he hadn't pleaded guilty he'd most likely still be locked up at Guantanamo. We all understood what happened & why.
However, because he pleaded guilty he continues to be treated as a "threat". It goes on & on ....

Speaking of Guantanamo, new information has recently emerged about the previous Australian government's knowledge (despite denials) of Habib's situation, prior to him being sent off from Pakistan & tortured in Egypt. And then ending up at Guantanamo, too.



Mothimg.that.comes.out.re.evil.collusiom.detweem.Dushco.adHoward.will.surprise.me.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2007 06:05 pm
A little letter to the editor in my paper this morning.:

Leave Hicks be

WHEN I was young, some of my adventurous idealistic young friends went off to fight in the Spanish civil war. The ones who weren't killed came home and became pillars of society. Maybe David Hicks was that sort of young man when he went to Afghanistan. Now he's back home, I think we should leave him alone and let him get on with his life in peace.

Pat Duxbury, East Kew


http://www.theage.com.au/letters/?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2007 10:43 pm
Today's the day.:

Shoddy justice for Hicks
the AGE editorial
December 29, 2007

TODAY the prison gates will open, a man will walk out and a shameful chapter in Australian history will close. Six years to the month since his capture by Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan, David Hicks will re-enter society. The manner in which he is to lead his life, however, is not entirely clear. Last week a federal magistrate imposed an interim control order on Hicks, with conditions that include a midnight-to-6am curfew and reporting to police three times a week. Hicks will be the second Australian subject to such a control order. The first was Melbourne man Jack Thomas, who is facing a retrial on terror charges.

Australians have known Hicks' features only by a few out-of-date family pictures and one of him holding a bazooka while training with the Kosovo Liberation Army. While his visage has been unseen, his case has cast a shadow over the previous government and its neglect of the state's responsibilities to defend the rights of citizens and uphold the fundamental pillars of justice. Hicks' lawyer, David McLeod, has said his client's mental state is fragile after years in detention at Guantanamo Bay. It remains to be seen whether he has the strength to challenge the control order, which is subject to confirmation at a court hearing on February 18.

But, to start, David Hicks is not a hero. His life is not heroic. He may have believed otherwise when he was with the Kosovo Liberation Army or at terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. But the tide in the affairs of this one man was about to go out and not return for some time. The pull on the tide was, of course, the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. When the US swooped three months later and rounded up hundreds, Hicks fell into a military, quasi-judicial black hole.

The Howard government responded by sacrificing a once inviolable judicial principle to the interests of maintaining the alliance. In effect, the presumption of innocence was jettisoned. It was argued that key rights under the rule of law are suspended in a war on terror. Guantanamo Bay prison camp was set up for precisely that reason: to deny detainees access to a US legal system that guarantees the same basic rights to all accused.

This month, almost six years after the first prisoners arrived at Guantanamo, the US Supreme Court was still hearing legal challenges to the denial of habeas corpus - the right to petition a court for the state to show just cause for one's imprisonment. The court, which previously ruled that the original military commissions were unlawful, forcing the Bush Administration to redraft the rules, is not expected to reach a decision until June. The number of detainees has dwindled from almost 800 in 2002 to 300 now.

Of all the hundreds deemed "unlawful combatants" by the US, David Hicks is the only one to have been convicted and only after a plea-bargain process that was clearly subject to political interference, which his military prosecutors later confirmed. The terms included an extraordinary year-long ban on talking to the media, which extends beyond his nine-month sentence. Hicks pleaded guilty at a hearing in March to having provided material support to al-Qaeda and of being associated with an armed conflict. He returned to Australia in May under a prisoner-exchange agreement and has spent his remaining months of incarceration at Yatala prison in South Australia, his home state. Fellow Australian Guantanamo Bay inmate Mamdouh Habib, who was picked up in Pakistan, was released without charge in 2005.

Ultimately, David Hicks became a cause celebre not because of what he did but because of what was done to him and to the integrity of the justice system in the prosecution of the "war on terror". Hicks' long detention without trial, much of which was spent in solitary confinement, eventually caused widespread outrage. The Howard government failed at one of the most basic levels of a democratic state's contract with its citizens, which is to ensure that all accused promptly receive a fair trial in a properly constituted court, whatever the circumstances.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/shoddy-justice-for-hicks/2007/12/28/1198778693419.html?page=fullpage
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