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Serious, Foreign Policy Experts

 
 
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:09 am
I'm hardly the first one to point this out, but...

Why is it that those who championed the war - and were completely wrong about many key aspects of it - are still being treated as if they had any credibility or special insight on matters?

Why are those who have been far more correct on a whole host of Iraq-war related issues not now being treated with far more respect?

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/12/what-rational-person-would-listen-to.html

Quote:
Thursday, December 07, 2006
What rational person would listen to people like James Baker?

(Updated below - Update II - Update III)

Atrios posted an excerpt of Russ Feingold making a vitally important though barely-recognized point last night on MSNBC (C&L has the video here):


The fact is this commission was composed apparently entirely of people who did not have the judgment to oppose this Iraq war in the first place, and did not have the judgment to realize it was not a wise move in the fight against terrorism. So that's who is doing this report.

Then I looked at the list of who testified before them. There is virtually no one who opposed the war in the first place. Virtually no one who has been really calling for a different strategy that goes for a global approach to the war on terrorism. . . .

This report does not do the job and it's because it was not composed of a real representative group of Americans who believe what the American people showed in the election, which is that it's time for us to have a timetable to bring the troops out of Iraq.


The reason it is worthwhile -- actually imperative -- to continuously document what war advocates said in the past is because they have proven themselves to be completely bereft of judgment and insight and, in most cases, lacking any sort of moral compass. And yet, these same war advocates -- and only they -- are deemed even today, as Iraq lies in ruins, to be the responsible leaders who have a monopoly on worthwhile wisdom. Conversely, those who exhibited great judgment and foresight are as mocked and stigmatized as much as ever (just a little bit less overtly, but only a little), and are excluded entirely from the process of determining what we should do now.

This matters for so many reasons, beginning with the fact that the people who brought us into the disaster we are in have not accepted responsibility and, consequently, have not changed their mentality or premises any. Where are the mea culpas for Iraq? With very rare exception, they are nonexistent, because nobody believes that they were at fault for what happened. Virtually all of the people who advocated this invasion have all created their own private rationalizations as to why they were right and other people failed to implement their plan.

As a result -- like everyone who thinks they were right in the past -- war advocates of every stripe believe not only that they were right originally, but that the solution now -- not just in Iraq but in the Greater Epic War of Civilization -- lies in doing more, not less, of what they advocated originally, that we need to listen even more to what they believe. The principal excuse for war advocates as to why we have failed was that their advice was not followed enough, not that it was followed too much. Thus, continuing to treat these individuals as wise and responsible cannot achieve anything other than leading us further into disaster. It is vital that they be discredited the way they deserve, based on their prior, towering errors.

From the start, the Baker-Hamilton Commission was a travesty waiting to happen. Its composition ensured that it could be nothing else, for exactly the reason Russ Feingold said. James Baker exhibited absolutely horrendous, amoral judgment on Iraq prior to the war, yet here he is, hauled in as the responsible savior, as though his past was really the opposite of what it is. As a war advocate, Baker is driven by a compelling and vested interest to make this war look like the right choice from the start, not in finding a way to end our involvement in it (and thereby confirming that it was a mistake).

In August, 2002, just as the public debate over Iraq was really taking shape, Baker wrote a New York Times Op-Ed in which he advocated -- not opposed -- the invasion of Iraq. And although he included all sorts of Friedman-esque caveats about how we should try to do it with as many allies as possible and how the costs would be substantial, he made absolutely clear that he supported the invasion as a necessary and wise measure to depose Saddam Hussein.

What possible rationale exists for listening to someone who urged us to pursue a course that is the greatest strategic disaster in our country's history? A person who said this should be shunned, not idolized:


Peace-loving nations have a moral responsibility to fight against the development and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction by rogues like Saddam Hussein. We owe it to our children and grandchildren to do so, and leading that fight is, and must continue to be, an important foreign policy priority for America. . . .

The only realistic way to effect regime change in Iraq is through the application of military force, including sufficient ground troops to occupy the country (including Baghdad), depose the current leadership and install a successor government. Anyone who thinks we can effect regime change in Iraq with anything less than this is simply not realistic.

Although it is technically true that the United Nations already has sufficient legal authority to deal with Iraq, the failure to act when Saddam Hussein ejected the inspectors has weakened that authority. Seeking new authorization now is necessary, politically and practically, and will help build international support. . . .

And even if the administration fails in the Security Council, it is still free -- citing Iraq's flouting of the international community's resolutions and perhaps Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which guarantees a nation's right to self-defense -- to weigh the costs versus the benefit of going forward alone.

Others will argue that this approach would give Saddam Hussein a way out because he might agree and then begin the ''cheat-and-retreat'' tactics he used during the first inspection regime. And so we must not be deterred. The first time he resorts to these tactics, we should apply whatever means are necessary to change the regime. And the international community must know during the Security Council debate that this will be our policy.

If we are to change the regime in Iraq, we will have to occupy the country militarily. The costs of doing so, politically, economically and in terms of casualties, could be great. They will be lessened if the president brings together an international coalition behind the effort. Doing so would also help in achieving the continuing support of the American people, a necessary prerequisite for any successful foreign policy.


So that was the brilliant Baker's advice in 2002 -- we should try to get as many countries as possible to help us and should try to get U.N. authorization if we can for the invasion (as though anyone didn't realize that). But, argued Baker, if we can't do that, we should invade anyway.

And we followed Baker's advice exactly. The administration did try to get as many countries as possible to help and did try to get U.N. authorization. And when it largely failed at the former and failed completely at the latter, it invaded anyway, just as Baker advocated. And unimaginable disaster resulted. And now Establishment Washington says that the wise, responsible, revered expert to lead us to safety is the same James Baker who urged us to embark upon this course in the first place. Deeper irrationality is hard to fathom.

Compare the profound wrongness of Baker's pre-war arguments to the pre-war prescience and insight of war opponents such as Howard Dean, Jim Webb, Russ Feingold Al Gore, and Nancy Pelosi, or the statements over a year ago from crazy, insane, cut-and-run-coward Jack Murtha about what would happen in Iraq if we stayed. The incoherence of viewing the former as some sort of responsible and wise foreign policy expert, while viewing the latter as frivolous and irresponsible radicals, is so intense that it makes one almost dizzy to contemplate.

If you go to a doctor for an operation and he completely botches your surgery and you lose an organ due to his abject ineptitude and recklessness, you don't go back to that doctor for repair surgery; you find another one. If you go to a lawyer who almost destroys your company through complete ignorance of your basic legal obligations, you don't stay with that lawyer in the hope that he will get you out of the disaster he created for you; you retain another one. All of that is just basic common sense.

Yet here we are, revering and listening to and following the same dense, amoral people who could not have been more wrong about everything they recommended and asserted prior to this war, while we scorn or (at best) ignore those who were so right. As but one example, one of the appointees on the Commission was the wildly extremist, warmongering American Enterprise Institute's Michael Rubin, though he is really different only in degree, not in kind, from most of the other Commission members and "experts" on whom they relied.

Worse, the people to whom we are listening do not recognize they were wrong. They believe they were right and that what we need is more of their great wisdom and advice, in greater doses. As a result, they are using exactly the same premises and assumptions and moral calculus that they used to bring about this tragedy, and astoundingly, there seem to be enough people -- at least in Washington -- willing to embrace the fantasy that somehow, this time around, listening to them will bring about better results.


This exists in the micro as well as macro - even here on A2K, those who have been completely wrong about the War in Iraq still go on making pronouncments and predictions as if they had any credibility left.

Do they feel no sense of shame at having been so wrong?

Do they stop and think 'I've been so wrong, maybe I should question some of the assumptions that lead to these errors?'

Not for the most part. I will point out that Ican has made strides in doing so lately, but for the most part, the War Hawks around here either avoid talking about Iraq, blame everything on the LIBERAL MEDIA (the most powerful force in the world), or just refuse to admit that they were in error at all.

Cycloptichorn
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 11:37 am
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 12:34 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 12:54 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?


They are credible?

I find Hillary and Kerry to be amongst the least credible Dems these days.

Try Feingold, Dean, Webb.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 01:05 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?


They are credible?

I find Hillary and Kerry to be amongst the least credible Dems these days.

Try Feingold, Dean, Webb.

Cycloptichorn

I have said before that while I agree with Feingold on very little politically, I do admire & respect his, what I believe to be, heartfelt core beliefs & for sure his morals.
Dean I find a little nutty, & Webb, well, he has yet to be tested.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 01:06 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?


They are credible?

I find Hillary and Kerry to be amongst the least credible Dems these days.

Try Feingold, Dean, Webb.

Cycloptichorn

I have said before that while I agree with Feingold on very little politically, I do admire & respect his, what I believe to be, heartfelt core beliefs & for sure is morals.
Dean I find a little nutty, & Webb, well, he has yet to be tested.


Dean may be 'a little nutty,' but his strategies have worked, completely, and his opinions on the Iraq war have been dead on from the beginning.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 01:45 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?


They are credible?

I find Hillary and Kerry to be amongst the least credible Dems these days.

Try Feingold, Dean, Webb.

Cycloptichorn

I have said before that while I agree with Feingold on very little politically, I do admire & respect his, what I believe to be, heartfelt core beliefs & for sure is morals.
Dean I find a little nutty, & Webb, well, he has yet to be tested.


Dean may be 'a little nutty,' but his strategies have worked, completely, and his opinions on the Iraq war have been dead on from the beginning.

Cycloptichorn

I don't know what Dean stands for, only what he's against. Didn't a lot of Dems basically tell him to set down & shut up during the campaign?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 01:46 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
A bunch on that commission helped arm and fund Saddam throughout the 80s. Helped arm and fund bin Laden too. James Baker got more blood on his hands than Bushie.

I agree about Baker, his law firm, or the one that bears his name, still defends some Saudis that were connected to 911.

Now as to some that championed the war, Hillary championed it, Kerry championed it, along with many other Dems, why are they still credible?


They are credible?

I find Hillary and Kerry to be amongst the least credible Dems these days.

Try Feingold, Dean, Webb.

Cycloptichorn

I have said before that while I agree with Feingold on very little politically, I do admire & respect his, what I believe to be, heartfelt core beliefs & for sure is morals.
Dean I find a little nutty, & Webb, well, he has yet to be tested.


Dean may be 'a little nutty,' but his strategies have worked, completely, and his opinions on the Iraq war have been dead on from the beginning.

Cycloptichorn

I don't know what Dean stands for, only what he's against. Didn't a lot of Dems basically tell him to set down & shut up during the campaign?


No, they didn't. I certainly didn't see evidence of that.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Dec, 2006 02:14 pm
Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe the people that reported that was wrong, but Dean was quiet, comparitively speaking, the last few weeks of the campaign.
0 Replies
 
 

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