Canadian liberal college students against freedom

Cycloptichorn wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
They should do the same with any campaigns, distributions, solicitations, lobbying efforts, displays, events, etc. that seek to support abortion as well.

Leave the Canadian women completely ignorant of their options, after all, what is college for if not to keep the youth ignorant?

Supporting pro-choice groups keeps noone ignorant of their options.

It isn't as if women aren't aware of the fact that they can choose to have the damn baby. You really think they need to have an organization to clue them in on that one?

Sheesh, you're being dense today

Cycloptichorn

They aren't supporting pro-choice groups, they are banning pro-life groups.

How many know that adoption is an option? How many consider the future ramifications of aborting their babies today so they can continue their sexual adventures? Yes, I really think that having information available is a viable option for many girls who may not know what alternatives exist to aborting their babies.

If you think every teen age girl going to college has the wit and wisdom to know what their choices are, you are seriously over-estimating them. And you call me dense? sheesh.

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These students aren't liberal-- at least in the sense that I am liberal.

This pro-life group should be treated equally with any other group.

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You keep peddling lies, McG. They aren't banning any type of group--they're are simply refusing to pay for anti-abortion groups. If the members of such groups are sincerely committed, i have no doubt they'll find the loonies to pay for their rant. (For those who never see past their own borders--loony is Canadian slang for a one dollar coin.)

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McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
They should do the same with any campaigns, distributions, solicitations, lobbying efforts, displays, events, etc. that seek to support abortion as well.

Leave the Canadian women completely ignorant of their options, after all, what is college for if not to keep the youth ignorant?

Supporting pro-choice groups keeps noone ignorant of their options.

It isn't as if women aren't aware of the fact that they can choose to have the damn baby. You really think they need to have an organization to clue them in on that one?

Sheesh, you're being dense today

Cycloptichorn

They aren't supporting pro-choice groups, they are banning pro-life groups.

How many know that adoption is an option? How many consider the future ramifications of aborting their babies today so they can continue their sexual adventures? Yes, I really think that having information available is a viable option for many girls who may not know what alternatives exist to aborting their babies.

If you think every teen age girl going to college has the wit and wisdom to know what their choices are, you are seriously over-estimating them. And you call me dense? sheesh.

You apparently don't know anyting about pro-choice groups, or you wouldn't write such tripe.

They aren't a bunch of ladies who sit around talking about how f*cking great abortion is and how everyone should get one right away. Far from it. They spend a lot of time and effort looking into, educating, and helping women choose the best option for them. Adoption, carrying the baby to term, abortion - they are all options. That's why it's called a 'choice.' This is not a difficult concept to understand.

Once again, they aren't 'banning' anything. Anyone who wants to is welcome to support whatever group they want. They just have refused to use student funds to support a group which seeks to criminalize the behavior of other students - and you're lying to yourself if you don't think that's exactly the goal of anti-abortion groups.

Cycloptichorn

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Well, certainly you will have a better knowledge than I have, McG, about what influence a student parliament has on the private life of a student.

In Europe, it's none.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, certainly you will have a better knowledge than I have, McG, about what influence a student parliament has on the private life of a student.

In Europe, it's none.

It's good of you to acknowledge your ignorance in this matter Walter.

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Now, if only you'd learn to admit your ignorance--and your constant attempt to spin things, such as a refusal to pay for something into an attempt to ban it.

CBC did a story on this yesterday, and interviewed a spokesman for the student council--and he made two points in particular, one being that they haven't banned anyone, but simply refused to pay for certain groups; and second, that the refusal is based on the efforts of the anti-abortion groups to criminalize a woman's choice of abortion.

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woiyo wrote:

candidone1 wrote:
I'm reading "anti-choice" in the above posting.
This is not the same as "pro-choice".

The distinction is obvious, and I support their ban.
It would be an entirely different issue if the group was pro-choice.

Explain HOW that is "anti choice"?

Is not giving birth a choice, just as not giving birth a choice?

Why should both sides not be heard?

The group mentioned was anti-choice.
To me, that sealed their fate.
The prefix "anti":

Quote:

Noun: anti antI [N. Amer], antee [Brit]
A person who is opposed (to an action or policy or practice etc.)

Source

Being anti something means that you oppose that something.
Anti choice is the exact opposite of pro-choice.

If I haven't already made the ditinction clear, being an anti-Semite is not the same as being a pro-Semite....hence, being anti-choice is not the same as being pro-choice.

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McGentrix wrote:

It's good of you to acknowledge your ignorance in this matter Walter.

Like a Canadian scout, I'm wise in the use of all resources, even when given by you.

But to be honest: I've looked up the legal background of Canadian student parliament, the last election results in said parliament etc as well.

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You can read the CBC story here.

I haven't yet found a link to an audio of the interview--if i do, i'll post it here.

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The last paragraph of the CBC article:

Quote:

After the meeting, Carleton University issued a news release, stating the university "has always been committed to the free expression of ideas in an open and respectful way," and that groups that aren't recognized by CUSA will still have the opportunity to book space on campus that is not controlled by the student council.

This is definitely a "not with my money" issue.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

The student body representatives obviously have the ability to choose which groups to fund and which not to. I know it worked that way at my University. Denying a group funding is not limiting their free speech; it is just refusing to pay them for it.

Cycloptichorn

If you went to college after the supreme court rendered its decision in Rosenberger v. University of Virginia (1995), then your university was clearly violating the constitution. Rosenberger holds that a university cannot withhold student activity fees from a student group based upon the content of the group's message. Of course, that only applies to American universities: I imagine that Canada has quite different rules.

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The rights of Canadian citizens are embodied in [ulr=http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html]The Charter of Rights and Freedoms[/url].

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joefromchicago wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
The student body representatives obviously have the ability to choose which groups to fund and which not to. I know it worked that way at my University. Denying a group funding is not limiting their free speech; it is just refusing to pay them for it.

Cycloptichorn

If you went to college after the supreme court rendered its decision in Rosenberger v. University of Virginia (1995), then your university was clearly violating the constitution. Rosenberger holds that a university cannot withhold student activity fees from a student group based upon the content of the group's message. Of course, that only applies to American universities: I imagine that Canada has quite different rules.

Someone may want to inform the Student Council at the University of Texas of this factoid; they have a long history of failing to fund the United Pirate Workers Socialist candidates of America. I am not kidding in the slightest.

The Pirate Party has come close to winning student government elections more than once there, actually; their platform is to dissolve the government once they are elected.

Cycloptichorn

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I screwed up my last post--i've corrected it here:

The rights of Canadian citizens are embodied in [ur=http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html]The Charter of Rights and Freedoms[/url].

I've found nothing therein which addresses this issue.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Someone may want to inform the Student Council at the University of Texas of this factoid; they have a long history of failing to fund the United Pirate Workers Socialist candidates of America. I am not kidding in the slightest.

It's quite possible that the UPWS Party failed to qualify as an official student group under some other requirement. The Rosenberger opinion, however, makes it clear that groups that otherwise qualify as officially recognized student groups may not be denied funding because of the positions they hold or the messages they propound.

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Geeze, this is embarrassing: i screwed up my last post--i've corrected it here:

The rights of Canadian citizens are embodied in The Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I've found nothing therein which addresses this issue.

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Re: Canadian liberal college students against freedom

McGentrix wrote:

Another case of freedom of speech for me, but not so much for you? I wonder what the uproar would have been like if it was funding for a liberal driven organization was being denied?

Any thoughts from our resident Canuckians?

Not a Canuckian, but I take this as further proof that some people who say they believe in liberty and equality don't practice what they preach. Not that the observation needs much further proof or that it's even remarkable. No political conviction has a monopoly on hypocrisy, so one would expect as many hypocrites among liberals as among conservatives, greens, or libertarians.

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I would equally object to funding an organization that was beyond the scope of pro-choice, who advocated "abortion as the only option".

I only hope to echo the fact that this is not a "freedom of speech" issue, it's about receiving funding.
You want to come to a school and deny the holocaust, fine, but don't ask the university for any money for your show.

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Should a neo-nazi organization be protected from 'withholding funds' as a student organization?

I only ask to see if those who support liberty and equality believe that all speech is equal, and should be funded equally with student monies, despite people's personal beliefs about the content of the organization.

No doubt there will be a rebuttal that the Nazi group, being a hate group, wouldn't qualify as a student org in the first place; but it doesn't seem to me to be that much of a stretch from a group whose sole reason for existence is to make illegal the actions of students on the campus.

Cycloptichorn

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Canadian liberal college students against freedom

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