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NBC Now Calls Iraq Conflict "Civil War"

 
 
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 11:29 pm
Civil War


Quote:
NBC calls Iraq conflict 'civil war'
DAVID BAUDER
Associated Press

NEW YORK - NBC News on Monday began referring to the Iraq conflict as a civil war, adopting a phrase that President Bush and many other news organizations have avoided.

Matt Lauer said on the "Today" show that "after careful consideration, NBC News has decided that a change in terminology is warranted, that the situation in Iraq with armed militarized factions fighting for their own political agendas can now be characterized as civil war."

The network's cable news outlet, MSNBC, drummed the point home repeatedly by using the phrase "Iraq: The Civil War" on the screen.

There are different criteria for defining a civil war. Webster's New World College Dictionary defines it simply as "war between geographical sections or political factions of the same nation." Some political scientists use a threshold of 1,000 dead, which the current conflict has long since passed.

There are more conservative definitions. The Web site GlobalSecurity.org, which provides information on defense issues, said five criteria must be met: The contestants must control territory, have a functioning government, enjoy some foreign recognition, have identifiable regular armed forces and engage in major military operations.

The Bush administration said Monday that it does not believe Iraq is in a civil war, and that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki does not, either.

"You have not yet had a situation also where you have two clearly defined and opposing groups vying not only for power, but for territory," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "What you do have is sectarian violence that seems to be less aimed at gaining full control over an area than expressing differences, and also trying to destabilize a democracy - which is different than a civil war, where two sides are clashing for territory and supremacy."

Matthew Felling, spokesman for the Washington-based Center for Media and Public Affairs, said that "not since Fox News Channel decided to stop saying 'suicide bombers' and start saying 'homicide bombers' has there been a starker linguistic stance taken by a news organization." The network began using that terminology in April 2002, shortly after the White House did.

Use of the phrase "civil war" could be seen in some circles as an escalation that could call into question the Bush administration's policy on the war.

The Los Angeles Times moved toward using the phrase this summer, carefully couching it in descriptions, but since October has been calling it a civil war, said Marjorie Miller, the newspaper's foreign editor.

"It's a very simple calculation," she said. "It's a country that's tearing itself apart, one group against another group or several groups against several groups. What country even admits that it is in the midst of a civil war?"

Editors at The Associated Press have discussed the issue and haven't reached a definitive stance, said John Daniszewski, international editor. Most often, the conflict is called "the war in Iraq" or identified with descriptive terms such as sectarian fighting, anti-government attacks or ethnic clashes, he said.

He pointed to the different definitions experts have for civil wars.

"From a historical point of view, not every civil war is called by that name, and wars by their very nature are not always neatly categorized," he said. "For instance, the American Revolutionary War, the Vietnam War and the more recent wars in Bosnia and Kosovo were all civil wars according to the broader definition, yet we do not normally think or speak of them that way."

Officials at both ABC News and CBS News said that they discuss the situation all the time, but that there's no network policy to use the term civil war.

"We are not there yet," said Paul Slavin, ABC News senior vice president, noting differing definitions.

The debate was discussed on air on "World News" last Wednesday between anchor Charles Gibson and correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Military officials say it could escalate into a full-scale civil war," Gibson said to Karl. "But with 3,700 people dying in a month and 100,000 people leaving the country and the kind of sectarian violence we're seeing, aren't we in a full-scale civil war already?"

Replied Karl: "That is certainly a debate that you can hear in the halls here at the Pentagon."

Similarly, CNN has no network policy, but on Monday correspondent Michael Ware said on the air, "If this isn't a civil war, I don't know what is."

On "Today," Lauer said NBC News consulted with many experts and carefully deliberated before making the call. He said there are two clearly defined groups, the Sunnis and the Shiites, using violence to gain political supremacy, and there's a government in place that's unable to protect people.

"Well, Matt, to be honest, I've been calling it a civil war, low-grade conflict, for 18 months," said retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, an NBC News consultant.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 573 • Replies: 16
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paull
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Nov, 2006 09:52 pm
Makes sense.

What's the diff?
0 Replies
 
Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:20 am
Jimmy Carter said it wasn't a civil war. What else would anyone expect from NBC, though, they have always had their liberal bias, along with CBS, CNN, and MSNBC.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:39 am
Didn't NBC call the presidential race for John "Catsup" Kerry? They followed the exit polls ratehr than the votes. lol
NBC stands for Never Been Caught.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 04:33 am
Yep, the "liberal media" call it a civil war.

They, and Colin Powell...

Quote:
Colin Powell says Iraq in a 'civil war'

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (CNN) -- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Wednesday that Iraq's violence meets the standard of civil war and that if he were heading the State Department now, he might recommend that the administration use that term.

Many news organizations and analysts are calling the Sunni-Shiite sectarian warfare that exploded this year, killing thousands and causing widespread displacement, a civil war.

Powell's comments -- made in the United Arab Emirates at the Leaders in Dubai Business Forum -- are significant because he backed the war and was the top U.S. diplomat when the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.

Bush has avoided using the term "civil war" to describe the situation in Iraq.

Tuesday, he called the latest violence in Iraq "part of a pattern" of attacks by al Qaeda in Iraq to divide Shiites and Sunnis and vowed, again, he won't support the removal of U.S. troops "before the mission is complete."

"There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented in my opinion because of the attacks by al Qaeda, causing people to seek reprisal," he said.



So, Bush calls it "sectarian violence fomented by [...] attacks causing people to seek reprisal". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that certainly sounds like a textbook description of civil war.
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 07:20 am
It was naive of the US to think they could bring to democracy to moslems. Of course the Iraqi's, having been freed from Saddam, have responded by hacking each other to death. It's a cluster f@ck of the highest order.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 09:00 am
Monte Cargo wrote:
Jimmy Carter said it wasn't a civil war. What else would anyone expect from NBC, though, they have always had their liberal bias, along with CBS, CNN, and MSNBC.


Carter basically said it is not a full-blown civil war yet.

Quote:
Also doubtful is that the White House will take comfort from former President Jimmy Carter actually agreeing with them that Iraq isn't experiencing a civil war but that's a fact.

"Compared to other civil wars which I at the Carter Center have been intimately associated, this is not a civil war yet," Carter said during a radio interview on the Diane Rehm Show which can be heard nationally on National Public Radio affiliates.

"We have devoted a good bit of our time for the last 20 years trying to resolve the civil war, for instance, in southern Sudan. Two million people have died.

"And we just finished helping hold the first democratic elections in history for the Republic of Congo. Four million people have died there in the last eight years. So compared to thoseso-called civil wars, this is not a civil war. But I don't think there's any doubt that it's civil strifeĀ…"


Saying Carter said it's not a civil war without providig the full quote is intellectually dishonest. Typical right-wing tactic of deceit by telling a half-truth.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 09:16 am
I think Iraq has some time yet to form a democracy, it took this country 11 years to get a Constitution after the revolution, to become a democracy, & after reading & listening to liberals in this country, I think they're still angered that we have a democracy.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 10:28 am
Evening News Viewership, 1980-2005
http://www.stateofthemedia.com/2006/images/narrative%20charts/network/aud_a.jpg

Quote:
Network TV Audience Trends 2006 Annual Report
Nightly Newscasts
March 13, 2006
The evening network news programs continued their steady but bumpy decline.

Between November 2004 and November 2005, ratings for the nightly news fell 6% and share fell 3%. That is an acceleration of the pace of decline in recent years. It translates into overall viewership on the three commercial nightly newscasts of 27 million viewers, or a decline of some 1.8 million viewers from November 2004. From the start of CNN in 1980, nightly news viewership for the Big Three networks has fallen by some 25 million, or 48%.

As measured in ratings, the percentage of nightly news viewing in all TV households, the three network evening newscasts had a combined 18.9 in November 2005, down from 20.2 a year earlier.

As measured in share, the percentage of just those television sets that are on at the time, the three newscasts earned a 37 share in November 2005, a drop from the 38 earned in November 2004 ...

... In the previous editions of this report, we have illustrated the decline in viewership for the nightly network newscasts by using two landmarks: 1969, the historic peak of nightly news viewership, and 1980, the launch of the cable news network CNN. In 1969, the three commercial nightly network newscasts had a combined 50 rating and an 85 share. In 1980, they had a 37 rating and a 75 share. Based on November data for 2005, ratings have fallen 62% since 1969 and 48% since 1980. Share has fallen 56% since 1969 and 51% since 1980 ...
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 10:32 am
Majority of Americans Believe
Iraq Is in 'Civil War', Poll Finds
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE
November 30, 2006

A majority of Americans think Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, a new Harris Interactive poll finds, and few are confident that Robert Gates's nomination as Secretary of Defense will improve the situation there.

Sixty-eight percent of U.S. adults said they believe there is a civil war in Iraq, the online poll from Nov. 13 to Nov. 20 found, compared with 14% who disagree and 18% who aren't sure.
link
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 10:35 am
Seems to be a trend;
Fox News Viewership:
Oct. 04: 1,074,000
Nov. 04: 891,000
Dec. 04: 568,000
Jan. 05: 564,000
Feb. 05: 520,000
March 05: 498,000
April 05: 445,000
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 11:48 am
Dunno there's any surprise there - Network News, just as Major Newspaper circulation, is on the downslope and has been for years. Now, FNC - the cable/satellite Fox News Channel, as opposed to "Fox News" on Fox Network over broadcast, handily leads that market - a market which itself is seeing declines, though not to the extent troubling broadcast and print media. Another interesting stat is that the median audience age for all is trending older - presently, the median age of network news viewers is in the vicinity of 60+, up over the past 10 years from around 48. The younger market is "looking elsewhere" for info, primarily to the 'net. Times they are a-changin' indeed.


BTW - its FNC, not broadcast Fox News, that Libruls <3 2 H8 :wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 11:57 am
Hate, hell, it is some of the best entertainment you can find on television.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 03:45 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
I think Iraq has some time yet to form a democracy, it took this country 11 years to get a Constitution after the revolution, to become a democracy, & after reading & listening to liberals in this country, I think they're still angered that we have a democracy.


What worthless f@cking drivel. I eagerly await your next tripe installment.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 03:56 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
I think Iraq has some time yet to form a democracy, it took this country 11 years to get a Constitution after the revolution, to become a democracy, & after reading & listening to liberals in this country, I think they're still angered that we have a democracy.


The problem with this analogy is that Iraq hasn't had a revolution...


... yet.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 03:56 pm
I've been calling it a civil war for a while now. When the amount of Iraqi deaths from their own people out weigh the deaths they cause to US troops then it is indeed a civil war.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 09:19 pm
Baldimo wrote:
When the amount of Iraqi deaths from their own people out weigh the deaths they cause to US troops then it is indeed a civil war.


Agreed.
0 Replies
 
 

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