65
   

Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2017 05:55 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
OK, I'd have understood if you'd said the process of sexual reproduction instead of the act.
You're right. My wife says I have a one track mind too. Sometimes she wonders if that's all I think about. I tell her, "don't know, I answer some posts and I get some work done I guess I can't be thinking about that all the time. But we do have five kids, and the process has gotten pretty complicated.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 07:13 pm
@farmerman,
fman - where'd you go?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Oct, 2017 07:40 pm
He's all at sea.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2017 07:14 am
@Setanta,
Im at yer beckin call.

You guys put wifi at yr docks up here. tres Cool. We popped some prop packing an its vibrating a bit so were gonna be laid up for a day or two. as they repack and the coatings dry enough. Were gonna be oot of the water and head up to Halifax . we should be back home before Halloween.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2017 01:53 pm
@farmerman,
I've been to Halifax a couple of times, and know that town pretty well. Have had some meals at Murphy's seafood restaurant on the wharf.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2017 05:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I spnt some time at Dalhousie many years ago. Halifax was a little bit like A wild west town back then. Mot of the beers really blew (caused gret aches of the head), except for Moosehead and one other
0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2017 10:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Yea. I don't get it. ID can't be tested, and nor can anyone produce evidence for the creator. Besides all that, homo sapiens are a rather young species on this planet. Most of us see it as the result of evolution. Nobody has been able to produce evidence to the contrary.


Not only evolution but any theory dedicated to explain how all plants and animals evolved from a single cell, obligatorily has to explain as well how all the information got into the genome.

It wasn't magic.



0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Oct, 2017 11:27 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
You have that backwards. Homo Sapiens or predecessors lost their fur while all of them still lived in Africa, when they stopped climbing trees in the forest and moved into the hot African grasslands. The Homo Sapiens started becoming somewhat hairier when they moved out of Africa up North, thereby demonstrating that your hairy ideas prove the opposite of what you think they do.


What you just said is a weird change in the species, loosing characteristics and recovering them after a while.

You must show that such kind of change is genetically possible.

as far as I can see, it's a great imaginary description of yours but is far away of a possible change in species.

Quote:
Your timing is off. Australopithecus might have made a tasty meal for the local predators, but by the time Homo Sapiens came on the scene the genus Homo was at or very near the top of the food chain. Half a million years ago Homo was already using razor sharp stone tips for his spears, which changes the power equation between Man and Beast very much in Man's favor. Fact is, predators were figuring out that they were better off leaving us alone.


Lets make it more simple and realistic.

When humans don't take baths or shower for weeks, stink worst than most of the species. Dogs, mules, rats, rabbits, lions, etc have shown a "limit" of stinking when their bodies are not in contact with water for weeks and months; however, humans "limit" of stinking in the wild will cause many predators to look somewhere else.

(Funny case in the news years ago were lions having eating the entire body of an African man, but left his feet intact)

But humans, before protecting themselves in houses and later on in cities, one of their "natural" protection was their body smell.

Quote:
We weren't a prey animal, by the time we became Homo Sapien we were top of the heap. Even now, people in undeveloped parts of the world seek out any predators that kill or attack a human and kill it with their sharp spears. Which means the only predators left now and probably for hundreds of thousands of years mostly figured out to steer clear when THEY smelled US. The genus Homo, and probably Australopithecus as well, devoted their energies to getting larger brains capable of devising more deadly hunting weapons. It turned out to be a much better survival strategy than wasting precious resources on keeping their sense of smell sharp.


You are implying that humans helped themselves to obtain bigger brains.

Such is a nuts idea.

Wolves, bears, rabbits won't even know that their skin is changing color in Winter season. The change of the color of skin is not at their will. The chameleon changes colors by cause of its fears or any outside or inside change. They don't control the changes of color in their skin.

Animals who developed a certain level of new knowledge, like domesticated dogs, their offspring didn't born with "greater brains" either.

But, lets play the game in base of your position.

How humans were capable to do so? I ask, because today humans can't do that, we can't change color of the skin using our will, neither the size of our bodies or, the number of teeth, unless we use tools and other methods.

So, explain this part, what is your hypothesis explanation of such devoting of energy to get large brains?

Quote:
probably Australopithecus as well, devoted their energies to getting larger brains capable of devising more deadly hunting weapons.






farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 05:21 am
@cameronleon,
you are invoking DOLLO;s Principle (often called law). In which the irreversability of deried traits "close off" the options a future genotype may acquire.
However there are few violations that suppost Blicker's post

1 The clavicle in non -avian theropod dinosaurs

2 Limb musculature in primates

3 Regaining "coiling" of specific species of gastropods

4Wings on stick bugs

Hair wouldnt be a stretch
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 12:40 pm
@cameronleon,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
You have that backwards. Homo Sapiens or predecessors lost their fur while all of them still lived in Africa, when they stopped climbing trees in the forest and moved into the hot African grasslands. The Homo Sapiens started becoming somewhat hairier when they moved out of Africa up North, thereby demonstrating that your hairy ideas prove the opposite of what you think they do.


Quote cameronleon:
Quote:
What you just said is a weird change in the species, loosing characteristics and recovering them after a while.

You must show that such kind of change is genetically possible.

as far as I can see, it's a great imaginary description of yours but is far away of a possible change in species.

How many ways can you be wrong? No change of species was involved at all. The evidence strongly indicates Homo Sapiens evolved in Africa from previous species of Homo, somewhere along the journey the line shed their heavy fur and became much more lightly furred over their body-so lightly furred that it looks almost without hair entirely in many spots. Hair is all over your body, but when it's so light and fine that it's barely visible it is called vellus hair. So, Homo Sapien in Africa was without heavy fur over most of his body, (whether he lost it or it was lost by a previous hominid in his evolutionary history is not germane to this discussion), and then some Homo Sapiens moved out of Africa. The local climate conditions were different in the places those Homo Sapiens moved to, so when in the cold the texture of the vellus hair became thicker and the places where hair became visible and abundant got bigger. All this time, he remained Homo Sapien, just like his fellow Sapiens who decided to stay in Africa. Trying to make this seem like some sort of miraculous transformation hitherto unobserved in biology is an indication of just how low you are in ammunition trying to shoot down the Out-Of-Africa Theory.

Quote cameronleon:
Quote:
When humans don't take baths or shower for weeks, stink worst than most of the species. Dogs, mules, rats, rabbits, lions, etc have shown a "limit" of stinking when their bodies are not in contact with water for weeks and months; however, humans "limit" of stinking in the wild will cause many predators to look somewhere else.....

....But humans, before protecting themselves in houses and later on in cities, one of their "natural" protection was their body smell.

What smells good is in the nose of the beholder. Smell is a warning system that lets the creature know that what he's near probably contains something harmful. Predators found out the hard way that an easy kill of a single human was usually followed by a search party of humans, often pre-Sapien humans, (the oldest spear with a stone point is half a million years old), who track the offending predator and put it to death. Hence, those predators who retreated at the smell of humans got to live and procreate another day, in fact many more days. Those predators who decided humans were a suitable entree did not. A few hundred generations of this process yields predators who think humans stink so bad, they're leaving.

Quote Blickers:
Quote:
The genus Homo, and probably Australopithecus as well, devoted their energies to getting larger brains capable of devising more deadly hunting weapons. It turned out to be a much better survival strategy than wasting precious resources on keeping their sense of smell sharp.


Quote cameronleon:
Quote:
You are implying that humans helped themselves to obtain bigger brains.
Such is a nuts idea.

Brainpower takes energy. An ounce of brain consumes several times the calories of an ounce of muscle. Therefore, those creatures whose methods of obtaining food rely on sophisticated strategies and even tool use will eventually produce offspring with larger brains, since the smart ones of that species will obtain more food and therefore have enough health and energy to produce more offspring. Therefore, in a certain sense, each creature, by trial and error, does choose to determine their brain development by relying on food-obtaining strategies which emphasize brainpower over muscle, and the offspring further refine and change that brawn/speed/brainpower combo as the generations continue.

Humans were one of the creatures that came across the discovery that by working together to hunt, talking and communicating with each other as to the latest weaponry and tools, they could go a lot further than just having the physically strongest get all the mates. The human leader in the hunger gatherer society is not necessarily the physically largest, although it is notable that even in advanced societies, physical size corresponds to our idea of leadership. Unsurprisingly, this is subject to change if the small candidate seems to have a lot more upstairs than the large candidate.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 03:11 pm
@Blickers,
What we call "upstairs" is over rated when the subject is "intelligence."
0 Replies
 
cameronleon
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 07:12 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
1 The clavicle in non -avian theropod dinosaurs

2 Limb musculature in primates

3 Regaining "coiling" of specific species of gastropods

4Wings on stick bugs


I see your list. Let me give you mine.

1 4 lbs of sugar
2 a gallon of milk
3 broccoli
4 yogurt
5 olive oil

In other words, you are giving a list of... of what?

What do you mean with "wings on stick bugs?

Are you saying that they lost their wings and later their recovered back again?

When? Where? Who witnessed?

Same with the other "samples" given in your list.

If you think that by giving a list of species and their body parts you are making your point, well, you are far away from that.

Show what you have over the table (explain properly your point), so everybody here can see it.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 07:48 pm
@cameronleon,
Obviously, you lack a lot of what is termed recently "upstair"! In other words, you have doodoo for brains!
cameronleon
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 07:50 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
How many ways can you be wrong? No change of species was involved at all. The evidence strongly indicates Homo Sapiens evolved in Africa from previous species of Homo, somewhere along the journey the line shed their heavy fur and became much more lightly furred over their body-so lightly furred that it looks almost without hair entirely in many spots.


Excuse me, no? but pardon me... you just posted a "change" in human's "fur".

Quote:
Hair is all over your body, but when it's so light and fine that it's barely visible it is called vellus hair. So, Homo Sapien in Africa was without heavy fur over most of his body, (whether he lost it or it was lost by a previous hominid in his evolutionary history is not germane to this discussion)


Excuse me again, no? but pardon me... the change you are implying in Homo sapiens is indeed worthy to be on the table in this discussion. You are saying that it's a change, you say that the fur was lost at one moment.

Quote:
and then some Homo Sapiens moved out of Africa. The local climate conditions were different in the places those Homo Sapiens moved to, so when in the cold the texture of the vellus hair became thicker and the places where hair became visible and abundant got bigger.


Then, you say that people from Africa have thin hair and people from cold temperature zones have thicker hair.

But, people from Africa have thick hair

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4771211119_6c7e89c05e.jpg

And people from Alaska have also thick hair.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Inuit_Woman_1907_Crisco_edit_2.jpg/220px-Inuit_Woman_1907_Crisco_edit_2.jpg

Then, you are in error with your story.

Quote:
All this time, he remained Homo Sapien, just like his fellow Sapiens who decided to stay in Africa. Trying to make this seem like some sort of miraculous transformation hitherto unobserved in biology is an indication of just how low you are in ammunition trying to shoot down the Out-Of-Africa Theory.


Wow, I truly am stunned.

I always related "transformation" with "change" but you seems to understand it different.

So, according to you the new environments caused the lost of hair and also caused the grow of hair again. And the most amazing part of the explanation given by you is that you have created such a hypothesis from bones alone.

Wow.

Quote:
Brainpower takes energy. An ounce of brain consumes several times the calories of an ounce of muscle. Therefore, those creatures whose methods of obtaining food rely on sophisticated strategies and even tool use will eventually produce offspring with larger brains, since the smart ones of that species will obtain more food and therefore have enough health and energy to produce more offspring. Therefore, in a certain sense, each creature, by trial and error, does choose to determine their brain development by relying on food-obtaining strategies which emphasize brainpower over muscle, and the offspring further refine and change that brawn/speed/brainpower combo as the generations continue.

Humans were one of the creatures that came across the discovery that by working together to hunt, talking and communicating with each other as to the latest weaponry and tools, they could go a lot further than just having the physically strongest get all the mates. The human leader in the hunger gatherer society is not necessarily the physically largest, although it is notable that even in advanced societies, physical size corresponds to our idea of leadership. Unsurprisingly, this is subject to change if the small candidate seems to have a lot more upstairs than the large candidate.


It wasn't necessary to respond the other group of sentences about the "power of stink" for survival, because my answer to your message can be resumed to a simple request.

Can you please participate in entertain children from a elementary school?

Your ideas are fantastic.

Of course, you can be as serious as you want, but you must avoid complaining if the children laugh.

It is comedy and a good story teller is needed. You can use you Homo Sapiens story, it won't affect the mind of the children, they know that the whole thing is entertainment.

If you are available, I will seek how to be in contact with you.




cameronleon
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Oct, 2017 08:02 pm
@BillW,
Quote:
Obviously, you lack a lot of what is termed recently "upstair"! In other words, you have doodoo for brains!


You are indeed the proof of evolution... from Homo Sapiens to Homo Brutus.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 12:57 am
@cameronleon,
Quote cameron:
Quote:
Excuse me, no? but pardon me... you just posted a "change" in human's "fur".

At some time in the past before some Homo Sapiens left Africa. However, when some Homo Sapiens left Africa and then developed heavier body hair in colder climates, they remained Homo Sapiens. Hence, whatever change in texture in body hair involved no change in species, which is what you were talking about. Ummm, you do remember what you were talking about, right? It was about a change of species.

Quote cameronleon:
Quote:
Excuse me again, no? but pardon me... the change you are implying in Homo sapiens is indeed worthy to be on the table in this discussion. You are saying that it's a change, you say that the fur was lost at one moment.

Fur implies very heavy hair. Except for a few places on the limited places body where hair is quite thick, modern humans have very light hair over almost all their bodies. When was the last time you heard of a grizzly bear with sunburn?

Quote cameronleon:
Then, you say that people from Africa have thin hair and people from cold temperature zones have thicker hair.

But, people from Africa have thick hair

On their heads, yes. All humans, at least when young, have thick hair on their head and a few other places. They don't get sunburn on those places. Almost all the rest of their body has thin hair, so thin that you can get sunburn. Most people have this figured out already. What happened to you?

However, many people outside of Africa have developed body hair that is often much thicker than that found on Africans. These people are mostly from Europe and Western Asia. So to briefly sum up, everybody has thick hair on their head and few other places, almost all the rest of the body is covered with thin body hair which is frequently of heavier density in Europeans and Western Asians than others.

Quote cameronleon:

So, according to you the new environments caused the lost of hair and also caused the grow of hair again.

No we lost our fur. We replaced it with heavy hair on our heads and a few other places, and very light body hair all over almost all the rest of our bodies. The thickness of the light body hair varies with region, but it does not get as thick as the hair on the top of the head when young. Got it now? Or do you require still more instruction.

Quote cameronleon:
Quote:
It wasn't necessary to respond the other group of sentences about the "power of stink" for survival, because my answer to your message can be resumed to a simple request.

No, you aren't responding to my answer about why predators don't like our smell because it blew your contention that the dislike is merely random to smithereens. Since the only survivors among the predators are the descendants of those who avoided us, the predators who didn't mind our smell all perished in a hail of spears tens of thousands of years ago as a result of their attempt to attack us. Unable to compose a sensible reply, you instead try to take on the pretense of intellectual superiority, which is not working for you at all.

You can pick up your teeth up off the floor now, the argument is over.
cameronleon
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:10 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
You can pick up your teeth up off the floor now, the argument is over.


Yes, it's over all right.

Thank you for sharing such a fabulous story tell of "changes" of fur into head hair, a story obtained by you after analyzing with the most advanced techniques the ancient bones found underground.

I wanted to add more details, like the razor blades between the rotten food found with those bones, but... I think doing so was pushing too much...

The story provided by you stinks like Homo Sapiens without taking a bath for months. I, as "the predator" don't want to near your narrative... because it's toxic.

I have no idea where you have pulled that story tell from, but if this is what all evolutionists receive as doctrine, I can see why they can't accept the doctrines found in the bible.

Now, do you see the that door at the end of the hallway?

Great, the debate is over... oh... don't forget to take with you the fur and hair you brought here as your evidence... your participation has been very impressive.

Next?



glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:19 am
I don’t think English is Cammie’s first language.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:31 am
@glitterbag,
I don't think language is his first language.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 Oct, 2017 08:37 am
@izzythepush,
🍻
 

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