65
   

Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2017 11:24 pm
In fact, there likely were very intelligent homo sapiens as long ago as two hundred thousand years--but no cities, no agriculture, no kings, armies, wars or income tax. Mitochondrial Eve, the mother of us all, may well have lived 148,000 years ago--no civilization, though.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 12:41 am
@reasoning logic,
Speculative. Nobody was around with an IQ test back then.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 05:42 am
@maporsche,
I don't see where he made that argument. Strawman anyone?
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 07:47 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

I don't see where he made that argument. Strawman anyone?


Hmmmm...more evidence that you have a difficult time reading and understanding posts.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 10:01 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Whatever evidence you have for civilizations as old as 100,000 yr ago, I'd like to see


I misspoke, I didn't mean to say there are civilizations over 100,000 years, I meant modern humans capable of civilization are over 100,000 years old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masatoshi_Nei
Quote:
Human evolution[edit]
Using his genetic distance theory, he and A. K. Roychoudhury showed that the genetic variation between Europeans, Asians, and Africans is only about 11 percent of the total genetic variation of the human population. They then estimated that Europeans and Asians diverged about 55,000 years ago and these two populations diverged from Africans about 115,000 years ago.[16][17] This conclusion was supported by many later studies using larger numbers of genes and populations, and the estimates appear to be still roughly correct. This finding represents the first indication of the out-of-Africa theory of human origins.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens
Quote:


The recent African origin of modern humans is the mainstream model that describes the origin and early dispersal of anatomically modern humans. The theory is called the (Recent) Out-of-Africa model in the popular press, and academically the recent single-origin hypothesis (RSOH), Replacement Hypothesis, and Recent African Origin (RAO) model. The hypothesis that humans have a single origin (monogenesis) was published in Charles Darwin's Descent of Man (1871). The concept was speculative until the 1980s, when it was corroborated by a study of present-day mitochondrial DNA, combined with evidence based on physical anthropology of archaic specimens. According to genetic and fossil evidence, archaic Homo sapiens evolved to anatomically modern humans solely in Africa, between 200,000 and 100,000 years ago, with members of one branch leaving Africa by 60,000 years ago and over time replacing earlier human populations such as Neanderthals and Homo erectus. More recently, in 2017, fossils found in Jebel Irhoud (Morocco) suggest that Homo sapiens may have evolved as early as 300,000 years ago,[8] and other evidence suggests that Homo sapiens may have migrated from Africa as early as 270,000 years ago.[9][10]. . .

. . .The recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa is the near-consensus position held within the scientific community.[11][12][13][14][15] However, recent sequencing of the full Neanderthal genome suggests Neanderthals and some modern humans share some ancient genetic lineages. The authors of the study suggest that their findings are consistent with Neanderthal admixture of up to 4% in some populations. But the study also suggests that there may be other reasons why humans and Neanderthals share ancient genetic lineages.[16] In August 2012, a study by scientists at the University of Cambridge questioned this conclusion, hypothesising instead that the DNA overlap is a remnant of a common ancestor of both Neanderthals and modern humans. That study however does not explain why only a fraction of modern humans have Neanderthal DNA.[17][18]

The multiregional origin model, proposed by Milford H. Wolpoff[19] in 1988[20] provides another explanation for the pattern of human evolution. Multiregional origin holds that the evolution of humanity from the beginning of the Pleistocene 2.5 million years BP to the present day has been within a single, continuous human species, evolving worldwide to modern Homo sapiens sapiens.

Axis scale: millions of years.
Also see: Life timeline and Nature timeline
Main article: Anatomically modern humans § Evolution
Further information: Human evolution, Homo, Anatomically modern humans, Timeline of human evolution, and Early human migrations
The time frame for the evolution of the genus Homo out of the chimpanzee–human last common ancestor is roughly 10 to 2 million years ago, and that of H. sapiens out of Homo erectus roughly 1.8 to 0.2 million years ago.

Scientific study of human evolution is concerned, primarily, with the development of the genus Homo (extant and extinct human species), but usually involves studying other hominids as well, i.e. other "great apes"; these include Australopithecus, an important ancestor of humans, and our current as well as extinct relatives among the Homininae subfamily: chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and the related extinct hominins.

"Modern humans" are defined as the Homo sapiens species, of which the only extant subspecies is known as Homo sapiens sapiens.

Anatomically modern humans first appear in the fossil record in Africa about 195,000 years ago (see Omo remains), and studies of molecular biology give evidence that the approximate time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations was 200,000 years ago.[23][24][25][26][27] The broad study of African genetic diversity found the ǂKhomani San people to express the greatest genetic diversity among the 113 distinct populations sampled, making them one of 14 "ancestral population clusters". The research also located the origin of modern human migration in southwestern Africa, near the coastal border of Namibia and Angola.[28][29]

The forces of natural selection have continued to operate on human populations, with evidence that certain regions of the genome display directional selection in the past 15,000 years.[30]


All this data is pretty much inarguable. If you want to be a young earth bible creationist you have to make this data fit into your interpretation of the bible. I am not a young earth creationist. I believe in ID. I believe there is a story in the bible with historical significance but, it does not say young earth to me. It matches archaeology and the fossil record if all are properly interpreted. Articles like this pushed me towards ID. http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/12-mutation-not-natural-selection-drives-evolution
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 11:04 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:
I misspoke, I didn't mean to say there are civilizations over 100,000 years, I meant modern humans capable of civilization are over 100,000 years old. 

Not sure what "capable of civilization" means really. In fact I tend to believe that Neanderthal was 'capable of civilisation', if our ancestors had left him a little more time to survive. The late cultural developments of Neanderthal prior to its demise (the cultural facies called châtelperronian) is now well documented scientifically. The facies includes 'jewelry' made of mammouth bones as well as coloring materials eg ochres. This points to art, one of the litmus tests of culture. Initially paleos thought that neanderthal had copied the behavior of intruding sapiens groups. But the evidence points to our cousins having invented their culture independently from us sapiens.

Given enough time, had our ancestors not showed up in Europe, Neanderthals would have inventer poker and mayonaise too.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 11:29 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
not sure what capable of civilization means really
I meant there is evidence that there were human beings alive then they were probably no different than us. Whether Neanderthals were as intelligent as Homo sapiens, I don't think there is enough evidence to tell. There seems to be fairly steady progression of evolution of animal life over millions of years. What's interesting is that in the last 2 million years, and especially in the last 60,000 to 300,000 years, there seems to be a huge jump from chimpanzee to Homosapien. It just doesn't quite fit the trend of evolution. Evolution seems to speed up here a little bit.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 12:01 pm
@Olivier5,
We kinda melded with the Neanderthal's. Everybody has on average 3% gentic makeup of Neanderthal and Denisovan genes. I know I'm just 1%.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 12:05 pm
@BillW,
It was probably like when Australia and the Americas were invaded. Lots of general killing, quite a bit of "melding."
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 01:48 pm
@brianjakub,
I think we clearly outwitted neanderthal in practice. In potential, nobody can tell. But in practice Cro Magnon came with a better technological package and relatively quickly thereafter neanderthal disappeared. That can't be a coincidence. The two species competed and our ancesters won.

The traces of neanderthal genome left in us predate the European colonisation by sapiens, they go back to 60,000-80,000 years ago when the two species cohabited in the Levant. Interestingly, they would result overwhelmingly from male neander x female sapiens, rather than vice versa.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 02:51 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
interestingly, they would result overwhelmingly from Male neander X female sapiens, rather than vice versa.
. That is a very interesting observation but how in the heck do we know who was bedding who?that is assuming of course they were civilized enough to do it in a bed :-)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 02:53 pm
@brianjakub,
It takes two to tangle.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 05:20 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
There were intelligent people in Africa, and perhaps the Middle East, during that time frame. Very likely as intelligent as the people today.


I will ask the same question to you that made setanta become emotionally charged when I asked her.

What evidence would you like to share?
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 05:24 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Speculative. Nobody was around with an IQ test back then.


I do not think an IQ test was required back then but we do need some demonstration of their behavior back then so we could analyze them today.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 05:26 pm
@Olivier5,
Do you think an EQ test would have value?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 05:55 pm
@reasoning logic,
Emotionally charged? You're hilarious, you're a legend in your own mind.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 06:00 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
You're hilarious, you're a legend in your own mind.


Shut the **** up. You remind me of this lady and I like her a lot. lol

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 06:03 pm
@reasoning logic,
Your only "reality" is youtube, huh?

Pathetic.
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 06:15 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Your only "reality" is youtube, huh?

Pathetic.


You are a pathetic part of my reality too. Idea

0 Replies
 
Christian0912
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2017 08:29 pm
@aperson,
Here we go...
Mutation-Yes.
Reproduction-Yes.
Genes-Yes
Natural Selection-Yes

I believe that all of the above is real, but can ANYONE tell me how using only the above processes, you can create an ENTIRE human body. If you can, then you're smarter than I.
 

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