Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

@brianjakub,

Quote:

Let's assume a rat or a frog has no purpose.

It's not a matter of having any purpose. It evolved into a frog based on its genes and environment. Some researchers have claimed that humans evolved from rats. Who knows? All life forms evolved from very simple cells into what we can find today, and we know many life forms have become extinct.

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@brianjakub,

It's obvious from your post that you don't understand science, evolution, and you REALLY don't understand natural selection.

I have a feeling that you think you do though, which is so tragic.

I'd suggest some college classes on the subject or at least a few good books. I could recommend some.

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

It's obvious from your post that you don't understand science, evolution, and you REALLY don't understand natural selection.

I have a feeling that you think you do though, which is so tragic.

I'd suggest some college classes on the subject or at least a few good books. I could recommend some.

I have a feeling people of that ilk have no desire for "a few good books" or a proper education, they just exist on what they are told to think!

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Brian is genuinly puzzled by the idea that pure chance can lead to complex life forms. That doesn't make him a bad or idiotic person. Go easy on the mobbing please.

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@BillW,

Quote:

@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

"It's obvious from your post that you don't understand science, evolution, and you REALLY don't understand natural selection.

I have a feeling that you think you do though, which is so tragic.

I'd suggest some college classes on the subject or at least a few good books. I could recommend some. "

Bill chimes in with:
I have a feeling people of that ilk have no desire for "a few good books" or a proper education, they just exist on what they are told to think!

I love irony. That is just so achingly funny I can't resist.

Two people accusing someone of existing on what he is told to think then advising him to accept what others told them to believe and think.

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@Leadfoot,

But based on actual research.

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@edgarblythe,

Yeah, I know, your PhDs are better than my PhDs.
Don't try to pretend there is no research on the other side of the question.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

"It's obvious from your post that you don't understand science, evolution, and you REALLY don't understand natural selection.

I have a feeling that you think you do though, which is so tragic.

I'd suggest some college classes on the subject or at least a few good books. I could recommend some. "

Bill chimes in with:
I have a feeling people of that ilk have no desire for "a few good books" or a proper education, they just exist on what they are told to think!

I love irony. That is just so achingly funny I can't resist.

Two people accusing someone of existing on what he is told to think then advising him to accept what others told them to believe and think.

Excuse me Leadfoot, but I don't think you understand what irony is. Or, in your zeal for a 'gotcha' moment, you misread my post.

He's creating a natural selection strawman and knocking it down. He's creating a point of view of someone who supports natural selection, and theorizing what the person must believe about society (" Live and let live. And when it comes to ethics and some sort of intrinsic value to human life, well. . .who cares. Survival of the fittest.....").

I'm saying to him, that this construct that he created in his head, has zero to do with natural selection, and if he were really interested in learning about natural selection that he take courses or read books on it.

That's not telling him what to believe, FAR from it. It's telling him that he's got natural selection wrong and if he wants to argue against it, then it would help to properly understand it.

It would be similar if I were on here saying something wrong about what the bible teaches and someone suggested that I read the bible more thoroughly.

You should want him to study up too, you know every post like that makes your side look more and more out of touch with reality and pushes more people away from your cause. Educated ID'ers at least don't make silly mistake like he did.

At the very least, even though you're wrong, I hope you're happy with yourself. Happiness is important.

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@brianjakub,

A rat's or a frog's activities and behavior are meaningless outside of it's environment. A frog is perfectly suited to making it's living in a swamp. But without the swamp (and all the other life forms that it co-evolved with, a frog would not be very good at making a living. Picture one in the sea, for example.

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@Leadfoot,

It's not a question of 'is too; 'is not.' That's why I don't post here that often.

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@brianjakub,

Quote:

Whether I disagree or not, if I want to figure out what something was made to do, I watch what it is doing, and assume that's what it was made to do.

That's what you assume: an intention. But there might not be one. All it takes for an organ to be developed through an evolutionary process is for an initial set of cells to produce a certain type of effect that is strongly beneficial. That's how eyes evolved, that's how livers evolved, etc. It now appears that our eyes are MADE FOR seeing and indeed that's what they are selected to do, but along their evolution process there never was any need for an INTENTION to see.

Quote:

Let's assume a rat or a frog has no purpose. Then why do we have an Enviormental Protection Agency(EPA). Who cares if an animal goes extinct, it has no designed purpose anyway. Who cares about global warming or climate change. The world wasn't created for man or life anyway. Let him kill himself. Let nature takes it course. Why do we even discuss such things. Live and let live. And when it comes to ethics and some sort of intrinsic value to human life, well. . .who cares.

I care. For very selfish reasons perhaps, ingrained in me by evolution, I care for my kids, my relatives, my city, my nation, the world, with rats and frogs in it (especially frogs).

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http://www.pixelcreation.fr/fileadmin/img/sas_image/galerie/livres/Cahiers%20Dessin%E9s%202/45%20Roland-Topor_therapien.jpg

Roland Topor, "Pinocchio", 1975

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@maporsche,

Quote:

He's creating a natural selection strawman and knocking it down. He's creating a point of view of someone who supports natural selection, and theorizing what the person must believe about society (" Live and let live. And when it comes to ethics and some sort of intrinsic value to human life, well. . .who cares. Survival of the fittest.....").

I'm saying to him, that this construct that he created in his head, has zero to do with natural selection, and if he were really interested in learning about natural selection that he take courses or read books on it.

I agree it has nothing to do with evolution. Besides I have said, "I believe in evolution and natural selection". I didn't post that as an argument for or against biological evolution by natural selection of random mutations. I was just stating a point, that maybe we are wasting a bunch of government dollars through unnecessary worrying about the purpose of endangered species. Sorry I strayed off the subject.

I have done a lot of research in this area of random mutations, and how they provide the complex information for natural selection to choose from. It is really a study in biogenetics, information technology and statistics, not paleontology, so the fossil record is of some use, but not as a primary source of research. Anyway, I didn't find much information to support that theory. I did find a lot of people telling me to read, but no one that can explain how what they read supports it. I have read what Farmer has recommended. I would love to have him comment on how the articles prove what he is saying they prove. Can you comment on what you have read or learned in college about the subject of random mutations leading to complexity?

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@brianjakub,

Yes. Follow the science.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

He's creating a natural selection strawman and knocking it down. He's creating a point of view of someone who supports natural selection, and theorizing what the person must believe about society (" Live and let live. And when it comes to ethics and some sort of intrinsic value to human life, well. . .who cares. Survival of the fittest.....").

I'm saying to him, that this construct that he created in his head, has zero to do with natural selection, and if he were really interested in learning about natural selection that he take courses or read books on it.

URL: https://able2know.org/reply/post-6501663

I am assuming it because it is a pattern that always works for the complex things that I know are designed. I haven't seen a model or a real time example that shows something evolving from simplicity to highly complex by random changes. I haven't heard, read or had someone attempt to explain to me how random changes can do that. So far all I get told is read. I read, understand the articles, as far as I can tell, they don't support the argument. They almost always come down this argument. Evolution happened. We can't use ID because for some people think it isn't science. So, random mutations as the source of new information for natural selection to choose from, is the only possibility by default. But, these same people who won't look at ID keep saying, "don't worry, the new discovery in biogentics, or evolutionary biology, that will provide the proof."

Quote:

I care. For very selfish reasons perhaps, ingrained in me by evolution, I care for my kids, my relatives, my city, my nation, the world, with rats and frogs in it (especially frogs)

Yeah, now we are basing science and public policy on consensus of the selfish. I'd sure hate to be in the minority(Or is it a majority of the general public that believes in a Designer?), especially when all possible explanations aren't allowed to be considered by consensus of a small group of scientists. OOPS, there I go straying off topic again.

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@cicerone imposter,

Pull some quotes out of scientific journals, and comment on them. I can't find any that support your point of view.

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@brianjakub,

Study Charles Darwin's finches in the Galapagos Islands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%27s_finches

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@cicerone imposter,

That is an article on selective breeding by isolation and microevolution, not speciation or macroevolution. We observe that when we breed pets and livestock. Has not created a new species or body part.

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@brianjakub,

Brian,
Why not complexity? Why is that so hard to swallow?

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@TomTomBinks,

I believe in complexity. I observe it being created and destroyed everyday. What do you mean when you ask,"why is it so hard to follow"?

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Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

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