65
   

Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 08:23 am
The Cambrian period was about 55 million years long

Homo Sapiens appeared less than 1 million years ago.
Home Erectus appeared about 2 million years ago.
The modern horses first appeared about 1 million years ago.
Pliohippus appeared 11 million years ago.
Merychippus appeared 30 million years ago
Most of the cat species have appeared in the last 1 million years
Prehistoric cats appeared about 25 million years ago

It seems we have been seeing a lot of evolution in the past 55 million years.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 08:28 am
Parados, you beat me to the punch yet again! Damn! What do you do? Hang around the site and wait for RL to spout his nonsense?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 08:37 am
Parados,

Do you know what a phylum is? Laughing
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 08:53 am
Let me counter by asking, do you know how evolution works? What does it matter if he's not talking about phyla?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 08:58 am
real life wrote:
Also, the Cambrian is characterized by many major phyla showing up SUDDENLY in the fossil record, already fully formed and functioning, no indication of numerous transitional forms with minor grades of change between them.

Just what we would expect from creation. Critters showing up suddenly and being completely formed.

That's also the same thing we could expect from changes in fossilization conditions or changes in the body types of organisms.

So instead of going with the obvious, your theory is that *poof* god created everything right at the beginning of the Cambrian? And then neverything evololved from there. But we do see organisms before the cambrian, and they are simpler than the things in the cambrian, so maybe god *poofed* those things first, and then *poofed* again in the cambrian, and then *poofed* again and again and again, all the while following the path that an evolutionary biology would take. Yeh, that makes a lot of sense Confused

So let's see, which could it be... the world is natural and we're seeing an aspect of biology and geochemistry, or .... IT'S MAGIC ... Hmmm, which could it be.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 09:01 am
Laughing
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 09:05 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
What does it matter if he's not talking about phyla?


Because that is the significance of the Cambrian period.

from http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cambrian/camblife.html

Quote:
Almost every metazoan phylum with hard parts, and many that lack hard parts, made its first appearance in the Cambrian
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 09:13 am
rosborne979 wrote:
real life wrote:
Also, the Cambrian is characterized by many major phyla showing up SUDDENLY in the fossil record, already fully formed and functioning, no indication of numerous transitional forms with minor grades of change between them.

Just what we would expect from creation. Critters showing up suddenly and being completely formed.

That's also the same thing we could expect from changes in fossilization conditions or changes in the body types of organisms.



If you are trying to propose that lower (i.e. 'older' ) strata were NOT conducive to fossilization, you'll have to argue that in spite of the evidence.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 09:32 am
real life wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
What does it matter if he's not talking about phyla?


Because that is the significance of the Cambrian period.

from http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cambrian/camblife.html

Quote:
Almost every metazoan phylum with hard parts, and many that lack hard parts, made its first appearance in the Cambrian


I still fail to see your point. Are you saying that one phylum cannot gradually evolve into another or split off into two? The Cambrian Explosion isn't just one of phyla, but also of genus and species. Or are you denying that the Cambrian Explosion created several new genera and species?

Furthermore, you're playing the word game again. Phylum, genus, species, are all man-made words used to classify and group organisms of similar hereditary features.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 12:14 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
real life wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
What does it matter if he's not talking about phyla?


Because that is the significance of the Cambrian period.

from http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cambrian/camblife.html

Quote:
Almost every metazoan phylum with hard parts, and many that lack hard parts, made its first appearance in the Cambrian


I still fail to see your point........



A new phylum requires MAJOR development (example: totally new body plan), species and genus don't.

For new phyla to show up suddenly in the fossil record without transition is a slap in the face to the evolutionary concept.

New species with slight differences between it and the previous species by definition would say that there was an identifiable transition.

Quote:
Described recently as "the most important evolutionary event during the entire history of the Metazoa," the Cambrian explosion established virtually all the major animal body forms -- Bauplane or phyla -- that would exist thereafter, including many that were 'weeded out' and became extinct. Compared with the 30 or so extant phyla, some people estimate that the Cambrian explosion may have generated as many as 100. The evolutionary innovation of the Precambrian/Cambrian boundary had clearly been extremely broad: "unprecedented and unsurpassed," as James Valentine of the University of California, Santa Barbara, recently put it (Lewin, 1988).

Lewin then asked the all important question:

"Why, in subsequent periods of great evolutionary activity when countless species, genera, and families arose, have there been no new animal body plans produced, no new phyla?"

Lewin, R. (1988)
Science, vol. 241, 15 July, p. 291
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 12:19 pm
attaining phyla staus wasnt the hard part in classification. Remember that, if you add up the Ediacaran and the entire Cambrian, all the phyla occured in a 75 to 80 million year period hich was one of the most dynamic environmental periods (increase of oxygen to a high of 30% i the Pa period, or the appearenace of land plants in the late Ordovician) all these occured in a non genesisian sequence and evidence a nice trail of precursors for each phylum that extends to the base of the Cambrian (with the exception of chrodates, which show up in the Ediacaran and annelids and a few others)
So the most advanced phylum(chordata) appears before spiders and ants and flowering plants.

How inconvenient for Creationism
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 12:46 pm
real life wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
Where is the science, RL? Even Watson says there is no basis in science.


He said there is no basis in science for the statement that was falsely attributed[/b] to him, and that others had falsely inferred[/b] , i.e. that 'Africans were less intelligent' or that ' Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior'.

He did not disavow his[/b] statement, rather he reinforced it.


Fittingly, ABC headlined Dr Watson's retirement today with this misstatement:

from http://www.abcnews.com

Quote:
DNA Scientist in Racial Flap Retires
DNA scientist who said that Europeans are smarter than Africans retires.



It is a 'front page' headline, which means if you go to the story itself, a different headline appears.





Another network published this falsehood:

from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21453894/

Quote:
Watson told a British newspaper that there is scientific proof that Africans are genetically inferior.


You can count on the media to get it wrong.

What Watson said in his book "Avoid Boring People: Lessons From a Life in Science" was:

Quote:
"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically," he writes. "Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."


And what evolutionist could possibly take issue with that?

I haven't seen any who could dispute this statement from an evolutionary point of view, rather than an emotional or political one.

Now for those of us who don't believe in evolution it is apparent that the whole issue is one that evolutionists would rather not discuss unless they can ignore the implications.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 12:59 pm
farmerman wrote:
attaining phyla staus wasnt the hard part in classification. Remember that, if you add up the Ediacaran and the entire Cambrian, all the phyla occured in a 75 to 80 million year period hich was one of the most dynamic environmental periods (increase of oxygen to a high of 30% i the Pa period, or the appearenace of land plants in the late Ordovician) all these occured in a non genesisian sequence and evidence a nice trail of precursors for each phylum that extends to the base of the Cambrian (with the exception of chrodates, which show up in the Ediacaran and annelids and a few others)
So the most advanced phylum(chordata) appears before spiders and ants and flowering plants.

How inconvenient for Creationism


I would think it very inconvenient for evolutionists that the most advanced phylum is thought to have existed much earlier than less advanced ones.

Creationists, (who do not believe that finding something in one place and time means that it cannot have also existed in another), are hardly inconvenienced over it. Amused, more like.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 01:45 pm
real life wrote:
Quote:
"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically," he writes. "Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."


And what evolutionist could possibly take issue with that?

I haven't seen any who could dispute this statement from an evolutionary point of view, rather than an emotional or political one.

Now for those of us who don't believe in evolution it is apparent that the whole issue is one that evolutionists would rather not discuss unless they can ignore the implications.


You have not been paying attention. Posters have pointed out the lack of science behind Watson's remark. This is the same objection most people have about creationism.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 02:45 pm
rl
Quote:
Creationists, (who do not believe that finding something in one place and time means that it cannot have also existed in another), are hardly inconvenienced over it. Amused, more like

Being amused and understanding something , are two different ends of the pencil RL. Chordates have always been a mystery in that the most primitive forms have LARVAE that evidence chardate structure, and adults that look more like sea slugs or sea squirts.
This agrees with , developmental biology, stratigraphy, and taxonomy. Creationist thinking is merely a mishmash of unconnected bumper stickers with no point of reference or direction.

I find your attempts at miscasting science charmingly naive. Sort of like an aboriginal legend of how the world was populated by critters.

Creationist who have no trouble in dismissing the non-occurence of a fossil in a place or stratigraphic layer are merely evidencing monumental ignorance of how earth and evolutionary processes work. You see, its a foundational piece of evidence that we use to predict where other fossils of the same type can be found . Can Creatioists claim the same rates of success? (Assuming they even do investigative work?) Razz
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 02:47 pm
farmerman wrote:
rl
Quote:
Creationists, (who do not believe that finding something in one place and time means that it cannot have also existed in another), are hardly inconvenienced over it. Amused, more like


Being amused and understanding something , are two different ends of the pencil RL. Chordates have always been a mystery in that the most primitive forms have LARVAE that evidence chardate structure, and adults that look more like sea slugs or sea squirts.
This agrees with , developmental biology, stratigraphy, and taxonomy. Creationist thinking is merely a mishmash of unconnected bumper stickers with no point of reference or direction.

I find your attempts at miscasting science charmingly naive. Sort of like an aboriginal legend of how the world was populated by critters.

Creationist who have no trouble in dismissing the non-occurence of a fossil in a place or stratigraphic layer are merely evidencing monumental ignorance of how earth and evolutionary processes work. You see, its a foundational piece of evidence that we use to predict where other fossils of the same type can be found . Can Creatioists claim the same rates of success? (Assuming they even do investigative work?) Razz
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 03:01 pm
I have no idea how that happened. I tried editing my quote function cause the keeps reversing its position after typing in a name, (like rl says) . Oh well, a piece of data cannot be hurt by restatement.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 03:21 pm
farmerman wrote:


Being amused and understanding something , are two different ends of the pencil RL. Chordates have always been a mystery in that the most primitive forms have LARVAE that evidence chardate structure, and adults that look more like sea slugs or sea squirts.
This agrees with , developmental biology, stratigraphy, and taxonomy. Creationist thinking is merely a mishmash of unconnected bumper stickers with no point of reference or direction.

I find your attempts at miscasting science charmingly naive. Sort of like an aboriginal legend of how the world was populated by critters.

Creationist who have no trouble in dismissing the non-occurence of a fossil in a place or stratigraphic layer are merely evidencing monumental ignorance of how earth and evolutionary processes work. You see, its a foundational piece of evidence that we use to predict where other fossils of the same type can be found . Can Creatioists claim the same rates of success? (Assuming they even do investigative work?) Razz


Let's not substitute correlation for causation. Cool
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 04:32 pm
Quote:
Let's not substitute correlation for causation.

Im not, are you sure you know what youre speaking of?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Oct, 2007 06:06 pm
Their investigative work in wrapped up in one book called the bible. They can't go forward beyond what was mistakenly known as revelation two thousand years ago. Poor sots; hell must be a fearful place.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 02/25/2025 at 02:34:33