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Unbelievers: Do you participate in Easter? Christmas?

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 08:29 pm
The figurine above was found near Wilendorf, Austria is about 25,000 years old. More information here.

The most remarkable thing written about her is that she wasn't made to stand on her own or to be placed on some shelf or pedestal, rather
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it seems unlikely that she was meant to stand up. This is even more true of the other Paleolithic figurines.

Nor it seems was she ever intended to lie in a supine position. In fact, her most satisfactory, and most satisfying, position is being held in the palm of the hand. When seen under these conditions, she is utterly transformed as a piece of sculpture. As fingers are imagined gripping her rounded adipose masses, she becomes a remarkably sensuous object, her flesh seemingly soft and yielding to the touch.


Who held her? Who beheld her 25,000 years ago?

joe(what a fine idea. Made to held in the hand.)Nation

PS I didn't mean to completely derail this thread, but it must be said that the myths of Christmas are linked to the past more inexorably than we realize or admit. Salvation is twined around the Virgin Birth like a vine.
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George
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 08:33 pm
If it's all the same to you, I ain't hangin nuthin like that on my tree.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Nov, 2006 09:24 pm
Laughing That would be difficult to explain.

Joe(You see, children, um...this ,,er,,,lady..)Nation
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 12:13 pm
Re: Unbelievers: Do you participate in Easter? Christmas?
maporsche wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
To Unbelievers:

If your place of employment offers time off work for Easter - do you partcipate?

How about Christmas?

Do you accept a Christmas bonus (if offered)?

If yes to any of these: Why

If yes - do you consider this to be hypocritical?




Wow, this is why many people cannot stand religion. What a condescending ASS!

Christmas has next to nothing to do with your Christ, and never has. The facts are
1) Christians forced others to accept Christ or BE MURDERED.
2) The Christians stole 12/25 from Pagans so that their religion would gain acceptance
3) Christ tells you to give your possessions to the poor, and you celebrate his birth by spending billions of dollars (this year an estimated $800/person) on worthless crap to give to people you barely like (if you're like most families). You could be buying food for the poor, but that Ipod is so much cooler. How **** selfish.
4) The Christmas tree has nothing to do with Christ. How many evergreen trees are there in Bethlehem?

How much CASH would Jesus spend on his buddies? What day would he have showed up in front of Best Buy for the new PS3?

Tell me please, what would Jesus want for Christmas?

You should be ashamed of yourself for asking this question, and not being able to recognize the hypocrisy that YOU exhibit by celebrating Christmas.

But, I'm sure you won't respond will you?


OK class - let's look up the definition of "condescending"!
Merriam Webster: to assume an air of superiority
Now class - re-read the post from maporsche and see if the definition applies!!! :wink:

Thanks for the additional lessons-by-example in hypocrisy, assumption and vile name-calling maporsche.

Oh yes - one more thought! Which of my statements above - is the most condescending? Oh, that's right class - BD1 did not post any statements - but asked questions.

Now (and very much unlike you) - I will answer your questions.

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How many evergreen trees are there in Bethlehem?
Not sure - haven't been. Hope to be able to go one day though - God willing! I would assume that the evergreen is of symbolic nature such as most items related to holidays.

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How much CASH would Jesus spend on his buddies?
Again - not sure. How much cash was his life worth?

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What day would he have showed up in front of Best Buy for the new PS3?
As I have no idea what a PS3 is - I cannot answer that ma.

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Tell me please, what would Jesus want for Christmas?
In my estimation - Jesus would want peace.

Quote:
You should be ashamed of yourself for asking this question, and not being able to recognize the hypocrisy that YOU exhibit by celebrating Christmas.


I very seriously doubt that you have any idea how I celebrate Christmas! Nor would you probably believe me.

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But, I'm sure you won't respond will you?
:wink: :wink: :wink:
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 12:25 pm
McTag wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
It always interests me how so many posts propogate to issues unrelated [or very loosely related] to the original question(s). And those doing the propogatin' - typically fail to answer the original questions. Why not start another thread if you have another agenda? :wink:


I thought I was answering the question, in my own roundabout way. I have no religious beliefs of my own, and so no "agenda". But your question was patronising, and exclusive. You have learned by reading these posts, that not only Christians deserve a "Christmas bonus". That's a message of Christmas that needs to get out there.


How was my "question patronising"? Is that an assumption? And what's wrong with "exclusive"?

Quote:
I forgot to mention mistletoe in my list of borrowed symbols.
But hey, we non-Christians are a forgiving lot. We turn the other cheek. :wink:

My question: Do Christians ever throw coins in a wishing well? If so, do they know why they do that? Doesn't it make them feel like hypocrites?


Sure.
Because my kids get a kick out of it?
Why should it make me feel hypocritical?
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2006 02:34 pm
baddog1 wrote:
McTag wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
It always interests me how so many posts propogate to issues unrelated [or very loosely related] to the original question(s). And those doing the propogatin' - typically fail to answer the original questions. Why not start another thread if you have another agenda? :wink:


I thought I was answering the question, in my own roundabout way. I have no religious beliefs of my own, and so no "agenda". But your question was patronising, and exclusive. You have learned by reading these posts, that not only Christians deserve a "Christmas bonus". That's a message of Christmas that needs to get out there.


How was my "question patronising"? Is that an assumption? And what's wrong with "exclusive"?

Quote:
I forgot to mention mistletoe in my list of borrowed symbols.
But hey, we non-Christians are a forgiving lot. We turn the other cheek. :wink:

My question: Do Christians ever throw coins in a wishing well? If so, do they know why they do that? Doesn't it make them feel like hypocrites?


Sure.
Because my kids get a kick out of it?
Why should it make me feel hypocritical?


It is a pagan custom. I thought it might offend your delicate sensibilities.

"Exclusive", describing your post, meant that you were suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter.

Which is pretty un-christian when you think about it.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 02:32 pm
McTag wrote:
Exclusive", describing your post, meant that you were suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter.

Which is pretty un-christian when you think about it.


LOL! Laughing So you've deduced that I'm suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter? Pretty arrogant there mctag - and also very wrong!

If you have a question for me - then ask it. Otherwise don't assume - you're not very good at it! :wink:
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 02:47 pm
Christmas has its advantage as a family reuniting, gift-giving time for people of any faith. But Easter doesn't seem to have that kind of luster.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 03:18 pm
baddog1 wrote:
McTag wrote:
Exclusive", describing your post, meant that you were suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter.

Which is pretty un-christian when you think about it.


LOL! Laughing So you've deduced that I'm suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter? Pretty arrogant there mctag - and also very wrong!

If you have a question for me - then ask it. Otherwise don't assume - you're not very good at it! :wink:


So what other assumption is possible from your first post?

Do not lie. Go thou, and sin no more.
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glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Nov, 2006 03:30 pm
I should know better than to discuss religion, but Easter always falls on Sunday. Most workplaces are closed on Sundays, for believers and non-believers. If your company is closed for a particular reason, and is willing to pay you for being off, what is a person to do. Insist on coming in and being the only person there. How effective are you going to be for your employer if you are the only one in the building. I think this is a silly question. I didn't know Lincoln or Washington, but if the office is shut down, there is no point in going to work.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:17 pm
McTag wrote:
baddog1 wrote:
McTag wrote:
Exclusive", describing your post, meant that you were suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter.

Which is pretty un-christian when you think about it.


LOL! Laughing So you've deduced that I'm suggesting non-Christians should be excluded from the benefits of Christmas and Easter? Pretty arrogant there mctag - and also very wrong!

If you have a question for me - then ask it. Otherwise don't assume - you're not very good at it! :wink:


So what other assumption is possible from your first post?

Do not lie. Go thou, and sin no more.


OK mctag; here is your "other possible assumption". It is not a lie; however I will no doubt sin again.

I really thought my point to the questions would've been apparent to all with the story about the "Little Debbie" race car. I'm pretty sure that some figured it out after reading the story and some even prior to seeing the story knew exactly what I was doing. And some were so hell-bent on making their "rightful" position known that they simply didn't get it - and perhaps never will.

The whole point of this post was to see how PASSIONATE we really are about our faith-based position. To see how our faith measures up when it comes to the subject of money. Yes - it was a test. The results pretty much speak for themselves. When money is involved - 'passion for faith' becomes secondary for many. Even non-existent for some.

There were many justifications and excuses presented - with varying degrees of obscurity. Some cried: "The historical-wrongness makes my choice to cash in OK". Others tried name-calling, humiliation, diversion, and so on. Some actually "got it" - admitting to the hypocrisy of the subject. Others see the bigger picture(s) - that all of us are hypocrits!

So there you have it. As history has shown over & over - if you want to truly know what a person stands tall for, what a person "walks their talk" for - include the money factor - it brings out the real truth every time. :wink:
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 12:20 pm
Ah, the reeking stench of christian love.

Judge not, Bubba . . .
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 01:42 pm
What a hodge-podge of amazing, self-deluding claptrap. Remember, that you addressed your silly questions to "Unbelievers", which makes a nonsense of what you have just written.

No-one will be taken in. I'm not. But I'm not surprised either. I've met hypocritical Christians before, sadly.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Nov, 2006 09:13 pm
Funny, that was my reaction to the "Little Debbie" racecar story. Funny what people will do in order to feel in control of their reality. I've known people who knock on wood, who cross themselves at the mention of the dead, who won't get up to bat in their softball league unless their jersey is buttoned just the way it was when they hit that grand slam ---- six years ago. (Btw- Little Debbie Cakes are awful unless you have been riding your bicycle for sixty or seventy miles and then they are just passable, as long as you have a giant semi-frozen Coca-Cola to wash them down.)

So anyway, the Little Debbie people are doing just that -doing something or not doing something- that doesn't have any real effect on their reality, it just makes them feel better, and more in control, because they did or didn't do it. It's ritual.

I knew people in West Texas who, every time they passed one of those "Pray for Rain" signs out on some farm road would shout out loud "Send down the waters, Jesus!!" Whenever it did rain, which was seldom (once, around 1969, it didn't rain a drop for seventeen months) whenever it did rain, they reported they felt enormous as if they had been personally responsible for making it rain.

But, really, knocking on wood, crossing oneself, buttoning shirts, shouting out for Jesus to bring the rain or leaving the Little Debbie ads off of a racecar on a particular day of the week brings no power, no magic, voodoo or incantation- it's theatre and nothing more.

Joe(showtime!)Nation
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Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 01:25 am
You know this has been bothering me...

Don't you mean: "non-believers" not "unbelievers"

An unbeliever would imply a person with the ability to unbelieve, that almost sounds like belief is a contractable. If 10 unbelievers are in a room with 2 believers, does the system balance? LOL.

as for "non-believers," doesn't that imply that they "believe in nothing" as in the belief of a zero degree?

How come Christians believe they can label people like this? Couldn't the same be said about any contrary point of view?

Couldn't Buddhists refer to Christans as non-believers? Christians certainly believe in something more than zero.

Point being: I understand you are referencing belief in Easter and Christmas," but nobody dis-belioeves the holidays exist ans people's practice of holidays are a cultural element of religion.

I'm certainly not a christian, but I celebrate Christmas happily with my family who are also not christians. I love that time I have with them, and any asshole who'd have me believe that I need to find my own holiday to celebrate or that I needed to do as they do can simply screw off. What Christmas means to me and my loved ones is family, and it's no less special for that.

Same for Easter.

Christians celebrate all sorts of non-christian holiday's and activities. You don't see other cultures demanding that they renounce their beliefs. it's the same thing.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 08:32 am
Setanta wrote:
Ah, the reeking stench of christian love.

Judge not, Bubba . . .


Huh? Why the rhetoric? If you've got something to say - say it!

Judgment? Please explain. :wink:
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 08:38 am
You are calling people hypocrites because they accept society as they find it, and get on with life. You have just recently claimed in a post that people who are not "people of faith" are hypocritical for accepting the "benefits" of days off or bonuses. As has already been pointed out to you, businesses are closed on days which are considered sabbaths or holy days, so they couldn't work if they were so inclined. The bonuses you referred to are seen, quite reasonably, as annual performance bonuses. If people subscribe to different faiths, or to no faith at all, you are indulging a hateful fantasy to suggest that they should honor a faith different to their own, or any faith if they don't subscribe to the notion of faith.

But you want to call people hypocrites--judge not, Bubba . . .
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 08:39 am
McTag wrote:
What a hodge-podge of amazing, self-deluding claptrap. Remember, that you addressed your silly questions to "Unbelievers", which makes a nonsense of what you have just written.

No-one will be taken in. I'm not. But I'm not surprised either. I've met hypocritical Christians before, sadly.


Before you began your rant - did you look up the definition of "unbeliever"? Obviously not! Shocked

And of course you've met hypocritical Christians before. And hypocritical unbelievers! :wink:

And I don't care if you're "taken in" or not. I wanted to see who walked their talk (Christian or un...). If that offends you - welllll!!!! Confused
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 08:50 am
How typically "christian" your judgmental attitude is.
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baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Dec, 2006 09:03 am
Setanta wrote:
You are calling people hypocrites because they accept society as they find it, and get on with life. You have just recently claimed in a post that people who are not "people of faith" are hypocritical for accepting the "benefits" of days off or bonuses. As has already been pointed out to you, businesses are closed on days which are considered sabbaths or holy days, so they couldn't work if they were so inclined. The bonuses you referred to are seen, quite reasonably, as annual performance bonuses. If people subscribe to different faiths, or to no faith at all, you are indulging a hateful fantasy to suggest that they should honor a faith different to their own, or any faith if they don't subscribe to the notion of faith.

But you want to call people hypocrites--judge not, Bubba . . .


Once again - my point is not to show that some are hypocrites and some are not. EVERYONE IS A HYPOCRITE!!! Is that clear enough? Shocked
Why do you (and/or anyone else) keep repeating this? I clearly stated that I am a hypocrite - along with everyone else on here. Why are you clinging to this issue?

The whole point goes to PASSION! (Re-read the post!) Many "unbelievers" on here are clearly PASSIONATE about their chosen position of faith. (Same with believers!!!)

My question: Why does the PASSION stop when it comes to money?

Using your examples:
Quote:
"...businesses are closed on days which are considered sabbaths or holy days, so they couldn't work if they were so inclined. The bonuses you referred to are seen, quite reasonably, as annual performance bonuses..."
Where is the PASSION? How many have gone to their employer and PASSIONATELY pleaded that their (un)religious conviction does not allow for them to accept the bonus if it's related to Christmas? That it is against personal-belief to take time off for a "holy day(s)".

Now if one approaches their employer about the Christmas holidays (including time off, bonuses, etc.) with the same outward, visible PASSION shown as when a kid prays in school, or to remove God's name from the pledge or various other similar actions - and is told not to worry about it; that would be a different story. I have no idea of knowing what the situations are - nor do I desire control over any of it.

I simply wanted to see how deep convictions run. What affects those convictions. How strong the PASSION really is. It doesn't matter to me if you call it judgmental - that is your right. I am aware of my intent on this subject. :wink:
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