Two things about nimh

Nimh you dont wanna be me. Trust me on this! You know nothing about what my life is like.

You only imagine you do; just the same as you imagine all those guys in bars are confident, but you dont know anything about their lives either.

Join clubs and interest groups, service clubs (Rotary?). Keep on presenting yourself to the world. the world wants to know about nimh.
Rotary in Hungary


oh and each day when you get up in the morning have shower shave etc then look in the mirror and say out loud "hey I'm ok" or i'm not cool or some such. do this religously for a fortnight at the end of the fortnight you will be whatever you tell yourself. I am seriouse, you can bullshit yourself into a state of being.

I know you're an expat and I have seen these very same symptoms in almost every exchange student I have come across. Some kids get more so, some less, some have variations on the theme but the thing is hundereds get the same feelings. they all get over these feelings and go to have a blast.

My heart hurts reading this, nimh. It's all so familiar-- I spent years feeling just the kind of loneliness and self-doubt and even self-loathing that you describe. I wish I had advice, but honestly I guess I never figured out a solution to feeling like that. I don't think anything but the passage of time has really helped, and I still feel that way sometimes too, just not so overwhelmingly.

So I'm just telling you I feel for you, and I wish I knew some answers. *sigh*

(((((((((((nimh)))))))))) Sorry you're so bummed, dude. You don't deserve it. Just a couple of comments.

I wholeheartily endorse Farmerman's solution. Physical exercise will if nothing else exhaust your body. My mom used to say; if you work with your body, you have to exercise your mind. If you work with your mind, you have to exercise your body. Maybe there's some chemical balance thing that results? Anyway, the human body almost invariably responds to exercise by getting stronger, which is of course a confidence builder, which is in turn attractive.

The most attractive person in a room full of strangers is seldom the most attractive person in the room. My current occupation as a bar manager affords me the perfect position for people watching. Confidence trumps neediness every time, of course, but integrity trumps confidence. You've got that in spades.

While I'll never believe that anyone is necessarily setting the bar to high, in what they find attractive and what they think they deserve I mean; I've watched scores of fools remain miserable because they limit their options to a woman or small group of women who don't find them attractive. Said woman or small group probably never will... but that doesn't mean their equals will not.

While it is certainly true that attraction can be manipulated, quite easily in fact, true attraction generally either happens or it doesn't. The best way to combat the unfortunate truth that none of us will ever be the fabled Don Juan; is to utilize the law of large numbers.

If your personal bar is set to the hypothetical point where 99% of the qualified candidates will reject you, than you:
A. Better get used to handling rejection. Keep in mind, even this is usually NOT personal.
B. Decide how long you want to wallow in misery between your successful attempts. If your bar is one in one hundred; then get busy sorting through the 99 rejections you're likely to suffer along the way. This may take a month or the rest of your life. That part's up to you. Put yourself in positions where you meet a lot of people (say hello to every girl who catches your fancy at a busy club, grocery or park.)

Don't let the unfortunate dry spells make you feel ugly. This is especially easy for men, because women, worthwhile women, are seldom as superficial as men. Look around you and take notice of how many gorgeous women are oblivious to the fact that their men don't seem to measure up, physically. They don't need to... because looks are seldom more than a pre-req for attraction... and typically ceases to matter at all once true attraction has been established.

Lastly, I know you've read Slappy's advice on how to manipulate women into liking you. I'd wager what's left of my kingdom that his techniques would work for virtually anyone, if getting laid is all you need for a kick in the ass to escape the vicious circle of funk you're currently in. Jumping out of an airplane didn't make me an adrenaline junkie, and behaving like a primitive sex seeker won't make you an insensitive ass. Not permanently, at least. :wink:

It is a pity that men tend to be at their worst with women when it matters most. Most over think, over worry and make their loneliness and fear of it a self perpetuating circle of misery. Pity there's no happy pill that could make you just be you when the opportunities present themselves. Most everyone on this forum likes you a great deal and I'll believe for not one moment that it would be any different in the real world if you could relax enough to just let you shine. In all likelihood, it will happen eventually anyway (as in Soz's example), but if you're becoming impatient you might want to take some steps to reduce the waiting time. I wish you the very best of luck, as always. (((((((((Nimh))))))))

OBill, Good post; I agree with all of it.

In my younger days, I used to worry that the women I thought I was interested in never reciprocated. Talk about fear, and a bunch of other insecurities, I had it in spades.

To make a long story short, I met my wife at a party in San Francisco. She had two doctors and an engineer chasing her, and I didn't even have a college degree. This is a woman who graduated from high school, nursing school, and college with honors. Her parents were none too happy when she introduced me to her parents.

We'll be celebrating our 48th anniversary in June. We have two great sons.

Congratulations C.I. I hope to be so lucky myself one day.

Pretending...acting...no...I in no way advocate doing such. It has to be real, it has to come from within, otherwise you are cheating...them and yourself.

You're a smart guy, smart guys can learn to do dumb things as well. But, it's not all about shooting guns, bar fights, sports, building things, or even the breaking of...none of those things make any of us men, nor more manly. It's about the basics, the core things that do make us men, the things that make us calm, and not just as a perceived outward appearance, but inner peace as well. I doubt there ever was a cave man that died of stress.

Dadpad is right, those guys you see in the bars...heh, scared little boys all of them, we all are, you are not alone in that. It's just that some are better at putting that little boy aside, or at least calming his fears.

You just have to trust me, you have a cave man lurking in there somewhere, you just have to find him. Yours might not be Gronk, Lord of the cave, he who can lift large rock!...but perhaps...Quark, the witty, he who draws graphs on cave walls!....but he is in there.

Oh, and the whole powerdrill, steak thing...that is more metaphorical than literal....um, feel free to swap nouns and pronouns around some....female or female body part would probably cover most of it.

And I think you're closer with the view of the vulnerable boy along with the nerd genius, person of analytic savvy in varied fields ... and man with style, as a whole being, not to mention one of the more observational writers I've ever read - (though not a literary person, I've read thousands of books).

Be calm (heh, for a bit).





You'll equilibrate your sense of self yourself, nimh.
Don't fear.

I'm gonna tell you a little story. I prolly shouldn't, it's embarassing, but maybe you'll get a kick out of it...



A while back I was on my way home from a night out with some friends. I was driving, shouldn't have been, but wasn't too bad. So I'd been in a busy roadhouse sort of bar, hanging out by the pool tables, long way from the toilet, hadn't pissed in hours, had had coffee earlier, was drinking beer -- going through a lot of water. But since I was standing, y'know, there wasn't too much pressure on my bladder, so before leaving I stopped the beer for an hour or so, had a couple of glasses of water from the bar, then got in the car and headed home.

After about 5 minutes of driving I realize that I've got to piss like a racehorse. I've got to piss like I've never had to piss in my life. I do the funny breathing thing like I'm in labor, I contort myself to try and lift my abdominal contents off my bladder. No good -- it's getting worse.

So I start looking for somewhere I can pull off and take a leak. But, damn it, I'm on this residential road, no parks or trees or alleys or businesses, just neat cozy houses with manicured lawns. I was afraid to pull over and whip it out because I'd have been so damned obvious there. It'd have been very eay to pick up a public indecency charge. And I wasn't really confident that I wouldn't pick up a drunk driving charge on top of it -- going over the number of beers vs. hours drinking and hour not drinking, I figured I was probably in a gray area.

So I keep driving. 12 more minutes to the house. I can do it.

Pressure's getting worse. Getting quite painful.







I didn't make it. At some point I just decided to let go. Hell, I figured, it's watery piss, I'm closing my eyes with the discomfort, I might as well get over it.

Felt great. And some little voice in the back of my head was trying to tell me how utterly pathetic this was, what a worthless piece of **** I was for getting myself into this situation, what a fool, what an ass, what a wart on the butt cheek of humanity.

But another part of my head just made me laugh and laugh and laugh -- alone in the car at 1 a.m., pants and car seat full of (thankfully) watery and odorless piss, and I'm laughing like a hyena at myself. Felt almost as good as the pissing did. And it wasn't just a laugh at the situation, it was a laugh at my entire self.





So, I hadn't told anybody this little story yet. If nothing else, nimh, I want you to know that I like you (in the ether, anyway) to tell you and everybody on your thread about it. But maybe it's also another lttle piece of advice. "Laugh at yourself" is a cliche, I know, as are all the recommendations of exercise and self-affirmation and whatnot, but that doesn't make it useless. There was a time in my life when pissing myself would have sent me into such a shame spiral that I wouldn't have talked to anyone for two months -- when I would have just holed up in my studio apartment amidst a growing mess, when I was imagining hanging myself from streetlights, when the idea of going to a party made me hyperventilate.

Okay, that's it. Make of it what you will. (The car looks and smells fine, by the way.)

<Interesting: I came here from shewolfe's 'nose thread>

ahem

She doesn't mean it as a euphemism, gus.

I like patiodog's story, and what I take to be it's point.



No, no, I told it wrong then. He considered the various things I told him, tried to do them to pick up girls, but at the end each time it felt wrong and just kinda bleh and he didn't like it and didn't like that he felt like he couldn't do it the way it was "supposed" to be done so he was just kind of like "**** it." It wasn't necessarily that pride/ strength thing, wrong emphasis.



He's an inveterate builder/ tinkerer so that part doesn't apply.



Then I really told it wrong. Neither did he. He actively wanted to find someone on a daily basis and complained to me loud and long about not finding anyone but he wasn't finding anyone. He wasn't like turning his nose up at women left and right, gawd no. He was eyeing a woman who came into the shop, I'd raise an eyebrow at him, he'd go to the opposite end of the store, I'd busy myself, the woman would ask me a question, if at all possible I'd say, "well I think ___ but that guy back there will be able to answer more definitively...," he'd glare at me, she'd ask him, he'd answer perfectly nicely and she'd smile and seem nice, she'd leave, I'd chat with him about her, he'd blush and mumble and say I dunno, she'd come back to the store the next day and I'd do a "pounce already!!!" eyebrow lift, etc., etc. I mean I understand being pushed into it is not actually helpful, this was after a lot of conversations though and a lot of attempts on his own time (if only in the general sense of going to an event with the intention of meeting someone, if not outright asking people out). None of these ever worked out. Sigh. When he did go on dates they usually ended up with "I like you as a friend but" and bleh.



Right. That's the same. I mean he does the man role in some ways, organic ways that he'd do no matter what, not just to impress ladies. But he was continuously being rebuffed for being himself (idiot women, he's a fabulous guy) and he just couldn't be anyone else. That included insecurities, and a really specific, weird sense of humor (he knows the Onion guys from way back, very much that vibe -- hey maybe now that the Onion is mainstream he'd be more of a babe magnet).

That's what I see as similar, and I'm trying to say that it did eventually work out for him -- though where I stop short is trying to extrapolate from that. Was it luck or inevitable once he calmed down and stopped worrying so much, accepted that inner little boy and figured if nobody liked him, too bad? (He'd bought a house on his own because he didn't want to wait to meet someone, get married et al... he had pretty much stopped actively looking... etc.)

Anyway, since there's nothing in that story that gives any advice you can really USE I don't think -- "try and relax" is one of those oxymoronic phrases, ask any woman who's at her OB/GYN's office -- I'm all for exercise, seriously. It does all kinds of good stuff. I know you ride your bike, but I'm talking about gasping for breath, give-it-all-you've got exercise. It's the one thing that's sure to help for me when I'm in that mental space.

Important note -- this is NOT about abs. It's about body chemistry. When I was already as fit as fit could be and not nearly appreciative enough of the body I had (oh to have a 17-year-old's body again), when the funk was descending I'd just take off sprinting. If I had the right shoes, I'd take off from where I stood, if I didn't, I'd strap 'em on and go. 20 minutes and 180 BPM later, I'd feel a hell of a lot better. There was nothing more reliable.

If you're going for a walk with three beautiful women, then you aren't ugly.

You might be in the friend zone, though.

Next time you're on such a walk I instruct you to say, "OK, which one of you is going to set me up with a hot date? Wait! You each need to set me up with a hot date...."

You don't suppose the walk was a chemistry test, do you?




Second, from your posts here you do strike me as principled. You like Truth. (This could be the cause of your anxiety and/or depression. Sadly, studies show that depressed people have a more realistic world view than other folks....)





Third, do you know how to dance? Ask one of those beautiful women to go to a dance class with you. Worst case, you have to ask several beautiful women to go to a dance class. Best case, you get to hold a beautiful woman while learning how to impress beautiful women.

I was thinking about this thread last night, and here's what I came up with. I would suggest that nimh put all the lights on in the morning when he gets up in all the rooms he spends time in.

I remember reading about studies done that shows lights in the morning (and during the day) helps lift the spirits for the remainder of the day.

Thats a seasonal malady ci, I think I suffer from it and I get more depressed in the shorter days. I find that my work in Argentina these last 2 years has helped me out in the SAD end, but as far as the women end.

I agree wih Drewdad, In my younger days I found that such activities made up a lot of potential serious contacts and an occasional hook-up. My biggest source was in art classes. You wouldnt even have to stalk anyone.

Since youre a Bi-pat, why not cmon back to the US, MErkin girls may be more your type. Nobody needs that attitude **** borne of culture.

Farmerman said merkin. Hu hu hu hu hu...

p-dog's story made my cry (not from sadness) and I agree with O'Bill completely.

nimh, I also agree with the concept of giving yourself positive affirmations in the mirror each morning. It might sound hokie, but the negative reinforcements you're giving yourself now are part of that vicious cycle you're in. You're telling yourself that you're worthless and the more you say it, the more you believe it. Looking in the mirror and giving yourself a nod and a 'lookin good' in the morning might make you laugh (or even choke) to begin with but it will eventually start to sink in.

Remember the point about body language? You're seeing the same body language in the mirror that you give off to others while telling them to leave you alone. They stay away and start to think poorly of you while at the same time you're thinking poorly of yourself. The cycle has no way of stopping unless you start feeling better about yourself. Positive affirmations are one way to begin to turn those feelings around.

Taking a walk alone in the woods is another a great idea, turning it into a run on the return is even better. Do you also have a history of seasonal depression? We're approaching the time of year when seasonal depression kicks in. Mr B and K are both affected and exercise is one of the things that keeps them going along with natural lights and tropical vacations.

Have you started taking your anti-depressants again? Have they helped?

Small men think they are small; great men never know they are great. Chinese Proverb

along the lines of the 2Packs proverb.... I've been reading along, and not writing...because I know I don't have to. Nimh, you have a grand head on thee shoulders and you will pull through this one. Whatever we can suggest you most likely already know. You will do what is best for you and right now all you need is a shoulder to rest on while you're tired from the journey. So, here we are, resting with you, nodding. i have not a slightest doubt that you have the answers for yourself and can only say 'keep at it'... and whenever you need, we'll still be here for ya.

Nimh,

You have a lot of guts even if your confidence is at a low right now. Takes guts to lay the reality of what you are feeling/thinking out there. Takes guts for you to be where you are, geographically and emotionally/mentally.
Always have liked that about what i've seen of you.

I loved what Bill said about integrity trumping confidence. That is so true. You've got that, and courage too.
(In case these parts of you are being overshadowed in your eyes right now, and for what the words are worth from me).

What you said about not wanting to hide that vulnerable part you have found resonated with me deeply. I agree - I think you are right - and from my own experience I'd say 'you don't want to go behind the cold wall'. I think you'll understand what I mean. It's hard to come back, and it is a desperate measure.
Basically, I think the fact that you can be open about this stuff like this, makes me think Dag is right. You're gonna get through this fine.

You aren't ugly, imo. I've seen your pics. Talking just physically, if you were in the same area as me you would probably catch me looking just a little too long. Probably, you'd interpret it as me thinking something bad, but the reality is I would be looking out of fascination (that means attraction .

Regardless of all that, you are a good person from what I know of you. This will pass.

No advice this time unless you ask for it.