We are all SINNERS???

God is not human, but spirit. Therefore, I guess, we are spirit.
If this is so, then, how would you address this question. Are we both spirit and human?

0 Replies

sunlover wrote:

God is not human, but spirit. Therefore, I guess, we are spirit.
If this is so, then, how would you address this question. Are we both spirit and human?

hey sunlover,
I'd like to see you try and crack THIS nut.

Come on... it's fun.

0 Replies

Bartikus wrote:

How do you define begat or begot Raul? Were you begotten?

Did you even read anything I posted?

Begot, to become a father; have a child - same thing. Yes, I was begotten - but that's beside the point. God did NOT beget nor is he begotten.

0 Replies

Terry wrote: How did having his son killed make the rest of us more right in God's eyes?

Another "problem/conflict" I saw about Jesus' sacrifice never made any sense, because who is god trying to pacify with it except himself?

0 Replies

That's the problem, he was not crucified or killed for the sake of mankind. This is a big misconception and Jesus (PBUH) will testify against those who claim that on the Day of Judgement.

And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on Earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

0 Replies

Raul, Please explain his crucifiction?

0 Replies

echi wrote:

sunlover wrote:
God is not human, but spirit. Therefore, I guess, we are spirit.
If this is so, then, how would you address this question. Are we both spirit and human?

hey sunlover,
I'd like to see you try and crack THIS nut.

Come on... it's fun.

Fun? Sure would be great if people kept it "fun." Keeping it on the light side, echi, have you read as much as you can find on the first 12 centuries, well nevermind, the first 4 centuries? Have you read the books that were not included in the bible, by the early church bishops, who wrote it to suit how they "believed" or understood the teachings of Jesus?

I was amazed to find out, just a decade or so ago, that some religions don't address the fact that Jesus said The Kingdom of Heaven is within us. God is within him, he said, it is God who does the works and not I (Jesus, the flesh). He spoke of the spirit within us all. Jesus was an example for us - all people. Some religions teach this, some like to continue staring at the cross, that horrible scene, but he is no longer there. His body died but the spirit within him is now within us. That was the sacrifice. This is only one way of saying this sort of thing, there are other religions that use different phrasing. We, the people, are The Church, and I don't know what the word "religion" truly means except possibly "how we live our lives each day."

0 Replies

Bartikus wrote:

Bella Dea wrote:
I've alwasy sorta felt that way too Nick. Why do I get punished for something someone else did?

Why do we have the opportunity to be saved based on what someone else did?

God sent a model for our behavior....his Son Jesus Christ.

I don't believe in being saved. It's load of crap.

You are either a good person or a bad one. There isn't an in between.

0 Replies

Bartikus wrote:

Jesus is mortal?

Duh, yeah. And bled. And He died, right?

0 Replies

xingu wrote:

Born a Jew; died a Jew.

Bless you.

(lol)

0 Replies

Raul-7 wrote:

That's the problem, he was not crucified or killed for the sake of mankind. This is a big misconception and Jesus (PBUH) will testify against those who claim that on the Day of Judgement.

And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on Earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

Jesus' taught his disciples, in secret, but these teachings have been suppressed, the followers killed over many centuries, The Crusades only a part. I am not in total disagreement with what you say, Raul. There are many false teachings from the Christians. Personally, I think we will all come together some day because, as we are taught in Comparative Religion classes in college or wherever, there is a thread of truth running through all religions.

C.I. I don't think Islam sees Jesus as Christians do. They see him as a great prophet, just not God. But, we all have "God" within us, or you could say, We Are God, the whole of humanity on Earth. So, why not rise together and change this planet.

Tons of people over time have sacrificed themselves, were killed in horrendous ways, but were happy to die in order to be released from the body. Why is that? Because they knew something we didn't? You can find this history in old obscure books, or the many new writers who write entire historical novels to say just a few words to help people understand just a tiny bit more than they now do.

The book burnings following the death of Jesus, BTW, went on for many centuries but I think we the people will someday recapture all that lost knowledge and we'll find that most religions basically agree.

People have a way of seeing The Crusades as what Christians did to Muslims, but most of the leaders of those battles respected, in a way, each other.

0 Replies

sunlover, What you describe is what buddhism is about. You won't find it any place in "other" religions including christianity, Islam, or Judism.

I won't believe for a moment that those who commit suicide knows something we don't. They lack the maturity to understand that shet happens in life; and we must learn to deal with it. Comitting suicide is a cop-out. I just feel sorry for those very young boys and girls, men and women, who commit suicide, because they think the future is hopeless.

0 Replies

sunlover wrote:

. . . Keeping it on the light side, echi, have you read as much as you can find on the first 12 centuries, well nevermind, the first 4 centuries? Have you read the books that were not included in the bible, by the early church bishops, who wrote it to suit how they "believed" or understood the teachings of Jesus?

I was amazed to find out, just a decade or so ago, that some religions don't address the fact that Jesus said The Kingdom of Heaven is within us. God is within him, he said, it is God who does the works and not I (Jesus, the flesh). He spoke of the spirit within us all. Jesus was an example for us - all people. Some religions teach this, some like to continue staring at the cross, that horrible scene, but he is no longer there. His body died but the spirit within him is now within us. That was the sacrifice. This is only one way of saying this sort of thing, there are other religions that use different phrasing. We, the people, are The Church, and I don't know what the word "religion" truly means except possibly "how we live our lives each day."

I have read some of the Nag Hammadi texts and a couple books by Elaine Pagels, which helped to give a better understanding of the history and significance of those writings.

The ideas presented in the Nag Hammadi were rejected as heretical by "Christian" authorities in the 3rd or 4th century, and the order was sent out to destroy all such scriptures (as well as anyone who would promote them). So, the texts were then hidden, probably by a wise and courageous monk, and were discovered only 61 years ago in some cave in Egypt (near the town of Nag Hammadi).

The discovery should have had a measurable impact on the Christian Faith, but it seems most are either ignorant or totally dismissive. Realistically, I can understand why today's church leaders would still reject such ideas, and I guess it isn't like a church follower to venture out on his/her own. Razz

(Too bad)

In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says:
"If those who lead you say unto you: Behold, the Kingdom is in heaven, then the birds of the heaven will be before you. If they say unto you: It is in the sea, then the fish will be before you. But the Kingdom is within you, and it is outside of you. When you know yourselves, then shall you be known, and you shall know that you are the sons of the living Father. But if ye do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty."

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

sunlover, What you describe is what buddhism is about. You won't find it any place in "other" religions including christianity, Islam, or Judism.

I won't believe for a moment that those who commit suicide knows something we don't. They lack the maturity to understand that shet happens in life; and we must learn to deal with it. Comitting suicide is a cop-out. I just feel sorry for those very young boys and girls, men and women, who commit suicide, because they think the future is hopeless.

Gosh, C.I. I wasn't speaking of suicide and don't think that is any healthy way of leaving the planet. There was a massive slaughter of people over several centuries by the early Roman Catholic Church in conjunction with royalty, and/or this pope or that. One of The Crusades was aimed only at the Cathars in France -- it took those ghastly people 300 years to kill the last Cathar. The people did not lie as they were hunted down, called heretics, and willingly died even burning at the stake. I've found that history on the Internet (Cathars/France). The same as the 'christians' that were fed to the lions in Rome.

I guess you could say the Cathars were Gnostic Christians, but Gnosticism is not a derivative of Christianity, it is the revelation of the true message of Jesus. Yes, of course, it's the same as Budhism. You could check out the book, Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes" by Mark H. Gaffney on the Internet. This is a huge unbelievable work.

I like reading novels (but where the history is true) and the best would be The Dream of Scipio by Iain Pears. He just sorta hits on, now and then throughout this book, the beliefs of (they had to have been) the Cathars. Cathars, as in cathartic, the word only means 'pure.' The castles where they lived in France's mountaintops are great vacation spots and according to the Internet. (Cathars/France). one can rent a cottage and walk where the Cathars walked.

C.I., we are individuals and we have to find our own answers. I do recall reading somewhere that the east and west were separated during the Dark Ages, leaving the west with no input as they created this religion called Christianity. Weird world.

0 Replies

Both CRIMES (transgressions against civil law) and SINS (transgressions agailnst religious law) are human inventions. In either both cases such transgressions are this-worldly phenomena.

0 Replies

echi wrote:

I have read some of the Nag Hammadi texts and a couple books by Elaine Pagels, which helped to give a better understanding of the history and significance of those writings.

The ideas presented in the Nag Hammadi were rejected as heretical by "Christian" authorities in the 3rd or 4th century, and the order was sent out to destroy all such scriptures (as well as anyone who would promote them). So, the texts were then hidden, probably by a wise and courageous monk, and were discovered only 61 years ago in some cave in Egypt (near the town of Nag Hammadi).

The discovery should have had a measurable impact on the Christian Faith, but it seems most are either ignorant or totally dismissive. Realistically, I can understand why today's church leaders would still reject such ideas, and I guess it isn't like a church follower to venture out on his/her own. (Too bad)

In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus says:
"If those who lead you say unto you: Behold, the Kingdom is in heaven, then the birds of the heaven will be before you. If they say unto you: It is in the sea, then the fish will be before you. But the Kingdom is within you, and it is outside of you. When you know yourselves, then shall you be known, and you shall know that you are the sons of the living Father. But if ye do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty."

I've read the texts found at Nag Hammadi and watched an excellent program on the National Geographic channel, History Channel, too, also read Elaine Pagels. A short while ago I read "Resurrection" by Tucker Malarkey (a Book-of-the-month choice). It's written as a novel and raises profound and timely questions about christianity between two fascinating worlds -- Cairo after WWII and the older, more mysterious world of the Lost Gospels. Fascinating.

I'm not sure the religion, Christianity, would ever admit they may have been duped. But, maybe it was meant to be this way, so that we can meet such an overwhelming challenge of discovering who and what we are -- fantastic spiritual beings in this human experience.

0 Replies

Sin is a human construct without much substance. All men have degrees of "good and bad," depending on cultural "norms" and personal subjective values.

I'm not one to worry about how good or bad I am; I'm just me - the result of my genes and environment. I'm not into extremes in what I consider my personality. I don't go around robbing or killing people. I don't make myself an object of attention by shouting or reacting in odd ways in public. I'm an atheist who lives a middle-class life in California. I've never written a book or won any accolades as a scholar or sports figure. I've done both good and bad to living things during my life, and I'll probably continue to do the same in the future. I'm just average which is okay by me.

0 Replies

But striving to be a better person is to attain true guidance. Staying away from what is considered unlawful by God actually makes you better off mentally, physically and spirtually. For example, which is why God forbid drinking alcohol, spreading rumours about people, talking behind people's back, gambling, fornication, wrongfully accusations, theft, etc. - all these were done for a the sole reason to protect the: religion, life, intellect, offspring and property of every single person. Firstly, through cultivating religious consciousness in the human soul and the awakening of human awareness through moral education; the second is by inflicting deterrent punishment.

0 Replies

Jesus turned water into wine. That proves that God not only approves of alcohol but let's his son make the stuff. And fornication? If it were not for fornication none of us would be here! Each of us is the product of two people fornicating! "Be fruitful and multiply" cannot be done without fornicating! Spreading rumors? What if they are GOOD rumors??? Jesus being son-of-God started as a rumor! Stealing? What if you steal from the rich and feed the poor? Let's all get drunk, fornicate, spread rumors and steal and enjoy the blessing forever!!!

0 Replies

No, even better. Let's shave our heads and attain enlighment.

0 Replies

We are all SINNERS???

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know