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Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?

Forums: Spirituality And Religion
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Mindonfire
 
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 09:14 pm
Reasons to Believe?

From examining the responses and reactions from numerous threads, it is actually quite evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is, and what his function entails. Most who claim to know, really don't know. They only think that they know. And so, most Christians will become upset or frustrated with an atheist or an agnostic because they supposedly "do not know God." But yet at the same time, fellow Christians have failed to shew any of these atheists or agnostics any conclusive tangible evidence of God.

So question:

Because they believe that they have not seen enough evidence to satisfy their questions, who is responsible for the atheist's or agnostics unbelief?


1. Is it because of the failure of the Believer to provide the necessary tangible evidence. And if so, does the responsibility or blame fall squarely on the shoulders of those who are the defenders of their faith?

2. Do many believe that there has been a presentation of ample tangible necessary evidence and those that remain atheists and agnostics just refuse to believe. And if so, does this mean that the responsibility or blame squarely falls on the shoulder of the atheist and agnostic?

Mark 9:24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.


1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,434 • Replies: 125
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 10:09 pm
No, silly, you need evidence for belief.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 10:17 pm
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?


I'm bored.
0 Replies
 
Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Nov, 2006 11:26 pm
ossobuco wrote:
No, silly, you need evidence for belief.


Well then there must be evidence of God?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 12:57 am
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
Mindonfire wrote:
Because they believe that they have not seen enough evidence to satisfy their questions, who is responsible for the atheist's or agnostics unbelief?


Who is responsible for your unbelief?
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 05:03 am
Look at the evidences presented regarding the unborn and abortion.

What good does it do for those who don't want to believe in the first place?

Whether there be evidences or not.....
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:42 am
hingehead wrote:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?


I'm bored.




I like this......I wonder if any Christians will comment on it.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:58 am
maporsche wrote:
hingehead wrote:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?


I'm bored.




I like this......I wonder if any Christians will comment on it.


Okay, I'm a Christian, and I admit it ... I too am a fan of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 10:22 am
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
Mindonfire wrote:

From examining the responses and reactions from numerous threads, it is actually quite evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is, and what his function entails.


In what way is it evident? Please support your claim.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 12:36 pm
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
Mindonfire wrote:
Reasons to Believe?

From examining the responses and reactions from numerous threads, it is actually quite evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is, and what his function entails.


There is no 'objective' God. No concept of God which exists outside of each individual perception.

So, what you have really observed from reading threads is that most people don't know who or what YOUR God is, and what YOU THINK his function entails.
0 Replies
 
Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 01:14 pm
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:
Because they believe that they have not seen enough evidence to satisfy their questions, who is responsible for the atheist's or agnostics unbelief?


Who is responsible for your unbelief?


What unbelief?
0 Replies
 
Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 01:17 pm
maporsche wrote:
hingehead wrote:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?


I'm bored.




I like this......I wonder if any Christians will comment on it.


Well, they probably will not respond because the first sentence is so terribly ignorant. And because of it's ignorance, it is not worth responding to. But proof does not deny faith. Proof actually gives birth to faith.
0 Replies
 
Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 01:20 pm
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:

From examining the responses and reactions from numerous threads, it is actually quite evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is, and what his function entails.


In what way is it evident? Please support your claim.


By examining the remarks on several threads it is evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 01:25 pm
In order for you to make that observation and assumption, you would have to know who or what God is.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 04:39 pm
Mindonfire wrote:
maporsche wrote:
hingehead wrote:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes and Who is this God Person Anyway?


I'm bored.




I like this......I wonder if any Christians will comment on it.


Well, they probably will not respond because the first sentence is so terribly ignorant. And because of it's ignorance, it is not worth responding to. But proof does not deny faith. Proof actually gives birth to faith.


MF - clearly you are ignorant of Douglas Adams' work - entirely meant to be humourous, and a little thoughtprovoking. Thank the lord that some christians (Hi Tico) are secure enough in their faith not to go into hissyfit mode and appreciate the joke.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 04:56 pm
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
Mindonfire wrote:
echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:
Because they believe that they have not seen enough evidence to satisfy their questions, who is responsible for the atheist's or agnostics unbelief?


Who is responsible for your unbelief?


What unbelief?


You tell me.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 08:45 pm
Mindonfire
Quote:
By examining the remarks on several threads it is evident that the majority of people do not know who or what God is.


It is true that those who have not experienced God do not know who or what God is. How could they? If you have not experienced Big Foot or Santa Claus or the Loch Ness monster, you are less likely to understand who or what they are and are quite likely to choose to not believe in their existence at all.

It is true that some people believe, rightly or wrongly, based on what they WANT to believe or what they have been taught to believe by others including things like Big Foot, Santa Claus, the Loch Ness monster, and alien abductions. Can we prove these things do not exist? No, any more than we can prove that God does not exist.

It is true that some believe what they have not experienced based on witnesses presenting evidence of their own experience. They cannot see the oxygen and hydrogen in water, for instance, but they believe it is there based on a cloud of witnesses testifying to the truth of that.

It is also true that those who have experienced God have a small and limited sense of who and what God is and they do believe. Some are persuaded of the existence of God based on a cloud of witnesses testifying to the truth of that.

And finally, I believe all willing to experience God will experience God, but that is something that each much experience for himself. I cannot transfer my experience to you.
0 Replies
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:19 pm
I believe the ability to find whatever God we seek resides in the imagination. We can will any number of Gods into existence. As proof, observe the vast number of contradictory human religions, all claiming they have found the true God or Gods.

It is clear that most of them must be wrong. It is unclear that any of them must be right.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:33 pm
Re: Enough Evidence to Help My Unbelief?
Mindonfire wrote:
echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:
Because they believe that they have not seen enough evidence to satisfy their questions, who is responsible for the atheist's or agnostics unbelief?


Who is responsible for your unbelief?


What unbelief?


Your unbelief in all the gods/faiths that you don't believe in. Presumably you have chosen just one? Julunggul will not be pleased with you !!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 10:17 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
It is true that some believe what they have not experienced based on witnesses presenting evidence of their own experience. They cannot see the oxygen and hydrogen in water, for instance, but they believe it is there based on a cloud of witnesses testifying to the truth of that.

Ignorant nonsense. Learn a little chemistry, perform a simple electrolysis experiment, and there you have tangible, visible, measureable, reproducible, independently verifiable proof that water is composed of two volumes of hydrogen and one of oxygen ... no "witnesses" involved, unless you invite some freinds over to share the experience.

Quote:
It is also true that those who have experienced God have a small and limited sense of who and what God is and they do believe. Some are persuaded of the existence of God based on a cloud of witnesses testifying to the truth of that.

And finally, I believe all willing to experience God will experience God, but that is something that each much experience for himself. I cannot transfer my experience to you.

"Faith is believing in what you know isn't so"
Mark Twain

Anecdote, no matter how devoutly believed, no matter how sincerely presented, is evidence of nothing beyond belief. Religious faith expressly, explicitly, and inherently is a circumstance of belief, not just willingness to believe, but, more importantly, requiring active desire to believe. "In order to believe, one must have faith, in order to have faith, one must believe; without faith, one cannot believe, and without belief, one cannot have faith" - pardon me or not, but it just plain don't get no more circular - or sillier - than that, and that precisely is the proposition you, in comon with most religionists in these discussions, repeatedly, in fact all but invariably, present.

Science readily admits not all questions have answers, even that some questions may remain forever unanswerable. Beyond accepting that, science depends on it, derives from it, proceeds because of that. Science is about asking questions then discovering, verifying, demonstrating, and constantly refining answers to questions, whereas religion is about declaring The Answer, apart from and immune to question. Personally, I just can't buy the "Because I told you so" argument, which in the end is the only argument the religionist has.
0 Replies
 
 

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