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Sat 11 Nov, 2006 03:25 pm
Quote:more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.
I love the stark contrast in reality shown here.
littlek wrote:Quote:more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.
I love the stark contrast in reality shown here.
I find that figure really hard to believe. Do you know how it was arrived at?
Really, if true, it is quite terrifying because it betrays such an utter lack of critical thinking ability.
How can the US be so far behind the rest of the west re this stuff?
That's SO true. I mean, come on, pick a crusade where there's actual
suffering to alleviate, huh? It really gets me that there are whole crowds of people with all kinds of energy to campaign and protest and write letters complaining about tv shows and who marries who and whatever else gets them riled up, and meanwhile there are real problems and their energy could be put to real use. There should be some kind of 12-step program for these people, and everytime they had the urge to write a letter whining about Hollywood promoting smut, they'd be sent to work at an animal shelter or a soup kitchen for a few hours instead...
dlowan wrote:littlek wrote:Quote:more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.
I love the stark contrast in reality shown here.
I find that figure really hard to believe. Do you know how it was arrived at?
Really, if true, it is quite terrifying because it betrays such an utter lack of critical thinking ability.
How can the US be so far behind the rest of the west re this stuff?
I have an aunt and uncle and cousins who believe that. People like that think they
are using critical thinking-- they've seen right through all those lies about things like the fossil record and stuff-- and
you're the dope for mindlessly believing those la-di-da
scientists.
Quote:This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.
However, they disdnt invent the squeeze bottle for yet another millenium
Urim (Sumerian name--the bible thumpers tend to call it "Ur of the Chaldees," which further displays their ignorance, because the Chaldeans were much later) was probably a village by about 5000 BCE, so the metaphor which runs "about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue" is dramatically effective, but only technically true.
In the Ukraine, settlements of homo sapiens sapiens dating back to 35,000 BCE or perhaps even earlier, have kerfed boxes made from tree bark, leather and wood, which have been glued together on the open side with some form of glue, which was likely made from bones and hooves of game animals, given the available resources.
So the Sumerians didn't really invent glue, which had, literally, been around for tens of thousands of years before that. None of which, of course, means anything to the bible thumpers, who know nothing if they didn't read in the Bobble, and have it interpreted by Reverend Lovejoy.
Mr Harris has some interesting choices of words.
He decries those who are 'divisive'. What exactly would he prefer? Well, probably that EVERYONE should think ALIKE, namely, as HE thinks, no?
The 'human and animal suffering' that he makes reference to is a clear indication that he probably would grant animals nearly the same status as humans, or more practically , devalue human life to that of an animal.
This is further evidenced by his apparent willingness to allow unborn children to be produced for the sole purpose of experimentation.
The West cringed when it learned of the human experimentation forced upon unwilling subjects by German doctors during the '40s. But now the West seems completely willing to far surpass what they dared to do.
If he wants to convince us that these are 'non-persons' then he has to be able to show beyond a reasonable doubt when one DOES become attain personhood. This he has not done and cannot do.
real life wrote:The 'human and animal suffering' that he makes reference to is a clear indication that he probably would grant animals nearly the same status as humans, or more practically , devalue human life to that of an animal.
Oh, man. Yeah, one reference to animal suffering does say all that.
Sam Harris, whoever he is, writes rather cogently.
There are people who believe the universe was created 6,000 years ago. There are also people who believe the earth is flat. There are people who believe that mankind was created, literally, from a gob of mud. This is all fine and good. I wouldn't argue with anyone's personal beliefs, no matter how misguided. Danger lurks, however, when some of these people get elected to public office or seize power. One reason the Muslim fundamentalists tend to be dangerous terrorists is because their preferred form of government is a theocracy. I shudder to think what can happen to any Western country -- the USA in particular -- if similarly thinking Christian fundamentalists hold power.
real life wrote:
The 'human and animal suffering' that he makes reference to is a clear indication that he probably would grant animals nearly the same status as humans, or more practically , devalue human life to that of an animal.
Doesn't the bible talk of animal suffering?
Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc) but you instead focus on two words (and animal) to create a fabrication so you can use it to argue against stem cell research. Truly amazing.
Quote:
This is further evidenced by his apparent willingness to allow unborn children to be produced for the sole purpose of experimentation.
Who is saying that we should 'produce' unborn children for experimentation?
The unborn children are already here and sitting in freezers. There is no need to produce anything. Stop trying to argue against a point that nobody is making.
The member "real life" doesn't plump for Bishop Ussher's six thousand year exegesis, but he has stated on more than one occasion that he believes in a "young earth," on the order of thousands of years old, as opposed to a few billion.
What i thought was interesting was his remarks about "raising" animals to the level of humans, or "lowering" humans to the level of animals. This seems most likely to me to stem from embracing literally the contention that the animals of this earth were created for our use, and that they a "beneath" us--which entails an unwillingness to acknowledge that human beings are animals, and that there is not meaningful distinction to be made on such a basis. One might argue that our alleged complexity of perception makes us the pinacle of animal development, but we are still animals. To me, he simply provides an example of a species prejudice. I don't see anything wrong with preferring one's own species, but i do see something wrong with being willing calously to destroy other species based upon an unsubstantiated and bigotted belief that humans are a unique "creature" entitled to condemn other species to death on a whim.
maporsche wrote:
Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)
Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.
real life wrote:maporsche wrote:
Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)
Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.
Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?
But...what if the Christians are RIGHT??? What if the Earth IS only 6,000 years old??? And that story of Noah...what if THAT'S true too! And Adam and Eve! And...NAH!
maporsch, Real and his ilk are only interested in making laws to prevent women from the control of their own bodies. All other logical questions such as yours are always ignored.
They are as dangerous as fundamentalist Muslims trying to enforce their religious' beliefs on the rest of society. One uses guns, the other uses our democratic process, but there's very little difference in the results they seek.
Some use guns, too, c.i. It's not a novelty to hear of a birth control clinic being attacked by "Christians." Religious fanaticism is deadly dangerous, whether it's Muslim, Christian or any other misguided extremist group.
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