0
   

George W. Bush and the Almighty

 
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2006 09:09 pm
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 12:29 am
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.


Where or when did I ever mention the government.

ONCE AGAIN, you are guilty of putting words into my mouth and then arguing with me about what YOU said.

So, instead of arguing with me about something I never said (or implied) how about you stick to my questions and we can argue over those.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 12:30 am
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.


And another question......

do you think that the government should be fulfilling the commands of scripture?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 07:02 am
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.


Where or when did I ever mention the government.

ONCE AGAIN, you are guilty of putting words into my mouth and then arguing with me about what YOU said.

So, instead of arguing with me about something I never said (or implied) how about you stick to my questions and we can argue over those.


The thread is about GWB.

In case you didn't know , he's the head of the government. He's the President of the United States.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 07:58 am
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.


Where or when did I ever mention the government.

ONCE AGAIN, you are guilty of putting words into my mouth and then arguing with me about what YOU said.

So, instead of arguing with me about something I never said (or implied) how about you stick to my questions and we can argue over those.


The thread is about GWB.

In case you didn't know , he's the head of the government. He's the President of the United States.


My post was about you, hence, me using the term YOU.

In case you didn't know, You refers to yourself, your person, your body.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 07:59 am
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:
real life wrote:
maporsche wrote:


Also, it's interesting that you don't try to argue against his point (which is that you and other Christians are more worried about Homosexuals than you are about poverty, starvation, genocide, etc)


Abortion is genocide and I have strenuously opposed it. Perhaps you didn't know that.


Have you done anything to stop it, or is talking about it the furthest you've been able to go? Also, is abortion the only genocide happening on earth? Have you done anything about the others? How about poverty or starvation? How about all of the other things the bible tells you to do?


What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.

I know what the Bible tells me to do.

Are you suggesting that because the Bible tells individuals to assist the poor, that those individuals should charge the state with the duty of caring for the poor?

Are you really suggesting that the mission of the government should be the fulfilling of the commands of scripture?

I thought you were all about separation of church and state?

It is the duty of government to protect the right to life, however. At least it is if you believe in the American form of government, which I do.


And another question......

do you think that the government should be fulfilling the commands of scripture?


I saw you glossed right over this question......answer please?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 08:24 am
real life wrote:
What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.


No one forces a woman to abort a foetus. Therefore, it is a private act, and your idiotic contention that it constitutes "genocide" is falsified by the philosophy you apply here.

Maporche has nailed you for the hypocricy which is at the core of modern christianity--there's not a one of you gobshites who practice what you allege your boy Jesus preached.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 12:39 pm
Setanta wrote:
real life wrote:
What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another.


No one forces a woman to abort a foetus. Therefore, it is a private act, and your idiotic contention that it constitutes "genocide" is falsified by the philosophy you apply here.

Maporche has nailed you for the hypocricy which is at the core of modern christianity--there's not a one of you gobshites who practice what you allege your boy Jesus preached.


Many women will tell you different, that they were coerced into aborting by a boyfriend, a parent, etc.

In addition, minors are subject to manipulation in ways that adults are not.

We don't allow cigarette and alcohol companies to prey upon minors to make them customers, and for good reason.

But we allow abortionists to do so.

And the pro-abortion crowd fights tooth and nail to keep the cash flowing into the abortuary from minors.

By definition, many of these are victims of statutory rape, and that too is covered up and not reported , often in violation of specific state law.

There's a lot more to it than simply repeating political slogans like 'it's a private act.'
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 12:44 pm
real, In your world cigarettes and alcohol is equal to abortionists. Your fundamental inability to think rationally is the basis of all your problems on this subject(and many others).
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 01:00 pm
By anybody's measure, an abortion is a major medical procedure.

Schools cannot give out an aspirin without a parental permission slip, but they can refer for an abortion without permission or even notification of the parents.

What's wrong with this picture, CI?

Also, an underage girl who is pregnant is obviously the victim of statutory rape.

Schools and medical professionals are typically required to report if an underage girl has been sexually exploited.

But this is ignored in the abortion industry.

Can you say double standard?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 01:03 pm
There's nothing wrong with the picture - if that's the law. If you don't like the laws of our land, either get it changed or move to a country that satisfies your needs - if it's that important to you.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Nov, 2006 01:03 pm
real life wrote:
Many women will tell you different, that they were coerced into aborting by a boyfriend, a parent, etc.


It would still be a private act, unless and until you can demonstrate that any level of government has coerced the woman in question.

Quote:
In addition, minors are subject to manipulation in ways that adults are not.


Yes indeed--anti-abortion activists bank on this with their phoney abortion counselling services.

Quote:
We don't allow cigarette and alcohol companies to prey upon minors to make them customers, and for good reason.

But we allow abortionists to do so.


We also allow religious crackpot anti-abortion activists to prey upon minors with phoney offers of abortion service counselling.

Quote:
And the pro-abortion crowd fights tooth and nail to keep the cash flowing into the abortuary from minors.


Your evidence for this is? (Anecdotal evidence of one or two cases fails on the principle that one swallow does not a summer make.)

Quote:
By definition, many of these are victims of statutory rape, and that too is covered up and not reported , often in violation of specific state law.


What is your evidence that this is so, and what is your definition of "many?" Once again, i'll pay no attention to your habit of dredging up one or two lurid cases and attempting to suggest that they are exemplary of the majority of cases, or even a significant minority of cases.

Quote:
There's a lot more to it than simply repeating political slogans like 'it's a private act.'


That's not a political slogan, it was the ironic use of a term which you originally introduced into the discussion. You wrote: What one does privately and what the state is charged to do by individuals through the democratic process is quite another. By the criterion you supply yourself, your objections are meaningless unless you can show that abortions are carried out because the state has been charged to force people to have abortions by individuals using the democratic process. I felt fairly certain that you would not like the response, but i had no idea that you'd miss the point so completely. I was just applying to abortions performed at the request of consenting adults the standard which you had introduced.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 02:57 am
Sam Harris wrote:

No wonder there is so little concern about global warming, running out of oil, depleting fish stocks, salinization of farmland, etc. We have not been very good stewards of the earth we borrowed from our children, perhaps because so many think the loan will never come due.
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 03:05 am
real life wrote:
Many women will tell you different, that they were coerced into aborting by a boyfriend, a parent, etc.

And many will tell you they were coerced into the sexual relations that led to the pregnancy. What do you think should be done to prevent THAT?

Quote:
By anybody's measure, an abortion is a major medical procedure.

Early abortion is NOT a major medical procedure. Childbirth IS, especially the 20% of births by C-section, with the attendent risks and very painful recovery of major abdominal surgery.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:19 pm
Terry wrote:
Sam Harris wrote:

No wonder there is so little concern about global warming, running out of oil, depleting fish stocks, salinization of farmland, etc. We have not been very good stewards of the earth we borrowed from our children, perhaps because so many think the loan will never come due.


Christians have anticipated the Second Coming of Christ for two millenia.

Societies that are predominantly Christian have also built the most stable societies -- politically, economically and environmentally that the world has ever seen.

No other societies have been able to support so many people at such a high level of development, long life span and momentum in the direction of constant improvement.

Your thesis is simply rubbish, Terry.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:44 pm
Yeah, the US with over 80 percent christians has the highest crime rate of any industrialized country in the world. When you state facts, you should understand the other side of the issue. "High level of development" can be seen as an oxymoron. Our country spends more on weapons than any seven countries put together. That's more than "rubbish." We have the capacity to kill this planet tens times over.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Nov, 2006 11:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Our country spends more on weapons than any seven countries put together.


That is rubbish.

The Chinese (atheist Communist government) spend a much larger percentage of their GDP on weapons than we do, as do several other totalitarian nations (some of them atheist Communist as well, none of them with a society that is largely Christian, AFAIK).

But perhaps you don't believe that the US has a right and a responsibility to defend itself against totalitarians who are busy arming themselves to the teeth.

That's ok.

You are free to leave. If you lived in some of those totalitarian atheist nations and disagreed, you might not be free to leave and might well die for your difference of opinion.

Get it?
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:36 am
We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the Earth several times over. That does not prove our "greatness". Our dismal failure in Iraq proves that even with all the military might we have we can't defeat even a tiny, nearly defenseless country. It's about time we realized the futility of war in this day and age.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:41 am
real, Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not talking about GDP. What you write is certainly rubbish. We're talking about total expenditure on our military vs all other countries.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:41 am
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Our country spends more on weapons than any seven countries put together.


That is rubbish.

The Chinese (atheist Communist government) spend a much larger percentage of their GDP on weapons than we do, as do several other totalitarian nations (some of them atheist Communist as well, none of them with a society that is largely Christian, AFAIK).


A high % of GDP doesn't buy you more nuclear bombs or battleships. America spends more money in raw dollars than any 7 other nations (I'm assuming this is true from the previous post).

And for what it's worth, our nation has only acheived this level of greatness (which is questionable in certain areas) because of the seperation between church and state. Our nation has acheived all that we have IN SPITE of Christianity, NOT because of it.
0 Replies
 
 

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