cjhsa wrote:You have basically regulated Europe into third world country status. Good on ya!
cjhsa doesn't even have to try very hard at being offensive. It all just comes naturally to him. Never ceases to amaze me....
Your willingness to give everything up to goverment regulation never ceases to offend me.
Reyn wrote:
I've been accused of being cheap (in an indirect way), but rest assured, I'm sympathetic to those who are paid low wages.
Don't take it personally Reyn. I've already admitted that there are cultural differences and what you do in your culture in acceptable. But here in the US tipping is the norm and those that don't do it are cheap.
I rather like the idea of rewarding someone for performance. A minimum wage is the lowest common denominator and that is often what you get in return. People who work for tips, in general, take more pride in their work because they know if they don't, they don't get paid.
jpinM, I agree with you; I've seen both excellent and pretty bad waiters in my time, and I like to reward those that are skilled at their craft. I don't always tip 20%+ when the waiter or waitress just drops off the food and never returns. Some really have great personalities, and it shows in how they treat their customers.
cjhsa wrote:Your willingness to give everything up to goverment regulation never ceases to offend me.
Because you don't understand it. And you're not willing to learn about it, either. It's foreign, it's alien to you, and therefore it's bad. You accept only what you grew up with. Everything else is not only inferior, but offensive to you.
What a pathetic, narrow-minded view, cjhsa.
jpinMilwaukee wrote: But here in the US tipping is the norm and those that don't do it are cheap.
Quote:Tipping is a multi-billion-dollar phenomenon that challenges the traditional assumption of selfish economic agents who have no feelings and do not care about social norms. [...] The reasons for tipping changed over the years, but conforming to social norms and avoiding embarrassment were generally the main reasons.
[...]
Tipping did not exist in the United States before the Civil War, but by the end of the nineteenth century it was prevalent throughout the nation and in many occupations. Yet, despite its prevalence, many regarded tipping as an evil and an un-American and undemocratic custom that should be eliminated. Those who disliked the tipping custom claimed that it is degrading to the tip-takers who have to "ask for favors" instead of earning a fair wage, and that tipping makes the tip-takers servile and creates different classes - the tip givers being superior to tip takers. Several customer and worker groups tried to abolish the practice, and in several states anti-tipping laws were passed around the 1910s. These efforts did not succeed in abolishing tipping, however.
[...]
source: Azar, Ofer H.: The History of Tipping - From Sixteenth-Century England to United States in the 1910s, Department of Economics - Northwestern University, 2003, published online at Social Science Research Network,
www.ssrn.com
Mame wrote:I'm with Reyn - I don't believe in it, either. I do it because it's expected but it really irks me and I wish they'd outlaw it.
In BC the minimum wage is $8.50/hr. While I don't think that's enough to live on (in Vancouver, certainly it isn't), lots of people make minimum wage and don't get tipped, like gas jockeys, retail sales clerks, stock boys at hardware stores, etc... so why tip servers and not the others?
Also, hairdressers can often make $20 per hour or more, so why are they getting a tip?
If people want to serve, that's their choice, but I don't think they should be rewarded for doing their job.
Nobody tips me.
So that's Canadians have a bad reputation about being cheap. My husband who has in the past been a restaurant manager also says that Canadian don't leave much of a tip. In the US, since a tip is figured into a(15% - 20%) waitstaff's salary, they make a very measly per hour wage (significantly below minimium wage. I addition, when reporting income to the IRS, the restaurant calculate in an estimate of what they feel the waitstaff should earn in tips - so by not tipping, you actually are causing them to pay more money (they still end up having to report that amount of tips). Also, in most restaurants, waitstaff also have to give a portion to busers and the bar. So they definately get screwed if you do not tip.
It may not be fair to the customer that they feel the need to pay a tip, but in reality the waitstaff ends up paying and losing out if you don't.
gustavratzenhofer wrote:What do you do when the service is great but the food is horrible?
Or has someone already asked that question?
I tip, but then I would have already complained to the manager/waitstaff and got something else. It's not the waitstaff's fault - they don't work in the kitchen. This happened a couple of times - if the steak is overcooked from what you ordered - send it back - if the waitstaff handles appropriately then yes of course tip.
cicerone imposter wrote:We give our postman a christmas gift every year; not cash, usually a box of See's candy.
I give him cash every year - he is so nice and besides during Christmas he has extra packages to deliver.
Walter Hinteler wrote:So, why do you only tip the waiter-service and not for the kitchen?
(When I pay my bill here, a "tip" [=service charge] is included for everyone.)
cooks make well over minimum wage - waitstaff make well below minimum wage.
Chai Tea wrote:gustavratzenhofer wrote:What do you do when the service is great but the food is horrible?
Or has someone already asked that question?
I'd tip the waiter, they didn't cook the food.
re putting the tip on a credit card, yeah, the waiter will get it, but now there's a paper trail and they'll have to declare the amount for taxes.
I forget the %, but waiters only have to claim a certain % of their tips, based on the total receipts....something like 5% or less. Tipping cash puts more actual money in their pocket.
Actually the manager of restaurants records the expected tips and it is sent to the IRS. My husband did this as a restaurant manager.
I think everyone here is labouring under a misapprehension...
Canadians do tip, it is the norm here, and tipping is usually 15 - 20%. Most everyone DOES tip. I hope that's clear now.
Reyn merely stated he doesn't because he disagrees with it in principle, and I stated I do (so as not to be mean/cheap), but don't like to, because of all the reasons I have already listed.
When I was a waitress, barmaid and bartender, I found American tourists to be cheap; they also complained loudly and frequently. So, there's no point in pointing fingers at one another. I don't think every American is a complaining, loudmouth, cheapskate, but some certainly are. And I've seen that behaviour abroad, as well. I also saw some rude Canadians.
Walter Hinteler wrote:Those who disliked the tipping custom claimed that it is degrading to the tip-takers who have to "ask for favors" instead of earning a fair wage, and that tipping makes the tip-takers servile and creates different classes - the tip givers being superior to tip takers. Several customer and worker groups tried to abolish the practice, and in several states anti-tipping laws were passed around the 1910s. These efforts did not succeed in abolishing tipping, however.
Because they were wrong.
My sister lives in NY city off of the tips she earns as a waitress. She makes nearly as much as I do in my normal salaried job. She makes that much money because she is a good waitress. She doesn't ask for favors, She doesn't feel inferior to those that give her the tips. She does a good job and is rewarded for it. If she were to only make minimum wage and no tips (or even $5 more than minimum wage), she would not be able to afford to live in NYC and go to school at the same time... she would have to spend all her time working to make as much money as she is now.
Reyn wrote:jpinMilwaukee wrote:Most servers are paid under minimum wage and make most of their living off of tips.
Yes, you folks must live by diffrent rules. Here, minimum wage is minimum wage, which, apparently, is $8.50 an hour here. It would be illegal for an employer to pay less.
As to your comment about those who don't tip are cheap, I don't get that customers are somehow responsible for a server's livelihood. An employer is responsible for that. Should it be on a customer's back that someone is paying less than minimum wage? After all, the fact that customers patronize a certain restaurant is helping to keep it in business in the first place. If not, employees would be laid off.
If the employer is cheating their employees out of a decent wage, then they should be reported to the Labor Board (presumably there is something equivilent in the US).
The employer is not cheating anyone - just what the minimum wage standard that is in place for anyone working in a "tipping" situation. The law is actually written with a minimum in place for waitstaff. And whether you think it is fair or not that the customer should make up for this - if the customer doesn't the waitstaff has to make up the difference. It may not be fair in your mind and in many others, but that is what is in place in the US. It is the minimum wage law.
If you go to a restaurant in the US, you expect to pay a certain amount including tip - you are not required to of course, but you will be labeled a cheapskate (and rightly so in my opinion). If you don't want to tip go away and also let the door slam in the person's face behind you too, because those that don't tip and stiff the waitstaff cannot possibly have concern for others.
cjhsa wrote:All my German friends in the U.S. really didn't get the tipping thing. They were so far off that I was afraid to let them pay even if they wanted to.
By the way, I don't tip on tax, and I hope that servers here realize why. If I go out a pick up a $200 dinner tab, the sales tax is going to be about $15-$20 and would add $4 to $5 the tip. In some places even more due to local "special" taxes. Sorry, ain't happening - and here's a tip - vote for politicians that lower taxes.
True tip does not include tax - since in MA the tax is 5%, I simply multiple the tax by four. Makes figuring easy.
What Mame said.
I tip as well - as it is custom here (="rounding up", more for an extraordinary good service).
Linkat wrote:
cooks make well over minimum wage - waitstaff make well below minimum wage.
Well, as said: waiters get here a not too bad salary, though (mostly) less than a qualified cook.
And I tip for the good service and well done meal, not because someone was doing what she/he was supposed to do.
cyphercat wrote:Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:A girl who used to clean hotel rooms told me a lot of people tipped...they would leave a couple bucks out usually if they stayed multiple nights.
I've been at a hotel the last couple nights. Should I leave a tip, or just that crusty towel on the floor?
Oh yeah, I always wonder about motel tipping. What does everyone do about that?
I tip according to the mess I leave. Usually a couple a bucks a night. On one particular night, I spilled some red wine - I cleaned it up, but it was still on some of the sheets - I left much more than the $2 (felt bad).
jpinMilwaukee wrote:My sister lives in NY city off of the tips she earns as a waitress. She makes nearly as much as I do in my normal salaried job. She makes that much money because she is a good waitress.
Like in any other job here: if someone is doing her/his job well, she/he gets a better salary. So do people working as waitresses/waiters.
They don't care what you spill on washable items. They only care about the count.
Tips may be expected, but they are not mandatory. You speak as if a tip is OWED. What if the person cannot afford a tip? Who is the judge and jury on that one? If the service is abysmal, should they still be tipped?
Anyone who works in an industry where they depend on tips to make ends meet is doing so at their own peril. It's a CHOICE they made of their own free will. No one is forcing them to work as a server or bellboy or porter. They can choose, like everyone else, to get educated or trained in something where they don't need to depend on tips.
Are we supposed to believe that we owe them their living (via tips)? That is ludicrous. Do I also owe the owner a living by eating at their establishment once a week? I can choose where I eat and what I tip. I don't owe them anything.
Non-tippers have their own reasons for not tipping, and calling them cheap is judgemental. Perhaps some think tippers are sheep.
