Tipping Etiquette

nimh wrote:

But then I do become angry in the same logic Reyn described: there's something truly bizarro in individual customers having to make up with oversized tips for employers refusing to pay a decent living wage.

In the long run only political action can correct that - higher minimum wages, and stricter enforcement on companies dodging the law on that.

But in the short term, what can you do - punish the waitress for her employer not paying a decent wage by not giving her the oversized tip that would compensate? Thats not right either.

The one thing though - if you put in place a huge cultural change like minimum wage and no tipping for waitstaff - you can expect:

Food prices to increase (you won't be tipping, but you will pay more for food)
Potential for service quality to decrease (little incentive to give extra service to customers)

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Linkat wrote:

The employer is not cheating anyone - just what the minimum wage standard that is in place for anyone working in a "tipping" situation. The law is actually written with a minimum in place for waitstaff. And whether you think it is fair or not that the customer should make up for this - if the customer doesn't the waitstaff has to make up the difference.

Linkat, I thought that it's the employer rather than the employee who has to make up the difference...?

old europe wrote:

As far as I know the minimum cash amount an employer in the USA has to pay to tipped employees is $2.13 an hour.

If an employee's tips combined with the employer's wage do not equal the hourly minimum wage of $5.15, the employer is required to make up the difference.

That might be a bit outdated, but I thought that was the principle...?

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Mame wrote:

What if the person cannot afford a tip?

You mean like Rachael Ray on her show '"$40/day"? She's a horribly cheap tipper.

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in canada "chambermaids" get paid more than wait-personnel - i read somewhere in a business magazine that in better hotels their hourly wage would be as much as 25% higher .
btw i use the more appropriate name of "housekeeper" when i leave a tip - usually in an envelope with the "housekeeper's" name , if supplied by the hotel .
an interesting change has taken place in the cruise-industry .
the old custom used to be to give a 'gratuity' to the cabin-steward and diningroom staff . about five years ago norwegian cruise lines started to charge $10 per day/perperson on the final bill - but passengers may contact the purser to 'adjust' the amount if they wish .
holland-america line was one of the hold-outs but they have also adopted that practice - which we think is a reasonable way of dealing with the 'gratuity' .
we usually tip our cabin steward and the dining room steward and assistant an extra $2 per person/per day at the beginning of the cruise and we think it's worth the extra dollars to assure super service .
our thinking is : if we can afford to pay for a cruise , we can also afford the extra dollars for those looking after us . we rather book a cheaper cabin(we just get an "inside' on the promenade deck ) and be generous with our tips .
sure works for us !
it's interesting that some of the "premium" cruise-lines do not charge a "gratuity" ; some don't even allow staff to accept it ; instead they charge a "premium" price to be able to pay their staff a good wage .

as they say : "different strokes for different folks" .
hbg

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Tips are optional.

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Mame wrote:

I think everyone here is labouring under a misapprehension...

Canadians do tip, it is the norm here, and tipping is usually 15 - 20%. Most everyone DOES tip. I hope that's clear now.

Reyn merely stated he doesn't because he disagrees with it in principle, and I stated I do (so as not to be mean/cheap), but don't like to, because of all the reasons I have already listed.

When I was a waitress, barmaid and bartender, I found American tourists to be cheap; they also complained loudly and frequently. So, there's no point in pointing fingers at one another. I don't think every American is a complaining, loudmouth, cheapskate, but some certainly are. And I've seen that behaviour abroad, as well. I also saw some rude Canadians.

Didn't mean to offend or point fingers - I never actually said Canadians didn't tip; but now have clarity of why in the restaurants that Canadians have a reputation of not tipping well. More of a cultural difference or a non-understanding of the US restaurant system as opposed to being cheap. We took a Canadian friend to the restaurant my husband was managing. This friend offered to leave the tip as I paid. My husband ran to me as we were leaving and said - did we have a problem or something with the service as the tip was so low. I said no it was great - that was when I heard from my husband of low tipping Canadians.

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Bluntly put, tips are always optional. They can't force you to leave a tip.

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old europe wrote:

Linkat wrote:
The employer is not cheating anyone - just what the minimum wage standard that is in place for anyone working in a "tipping" situation. The law is actually written with a minimum in place for waitstaff. And whether you think it is fair or not that the customer should make up for this - if the customer doesn't the waitstaff has to make up the difference.

Linkat, I thought that it's the employer rather than the employee who has to make up the difference...?

old europe wrote:
As far as I know the minimum cash amount an employer in the USA has to pay to tipped employees is $2.13 an hour.

If an employee's tips combined with the employer's wage do not equal the hourly minimum wage of $5.15, the employer is required to make up the difference.

That might be a bit outdated, but I thought that was the principle...?

Not according to my husband - who has worked as a restaurant manager.

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cjhsa wrote:

Mame wrote:
What if the person cannot afford a tip?

You mean like Rachael Ray on her show '"$40/day"? She's a horribly cheap tipper.

I didn't realize any one else thought so too! About Rachael Ray that is!

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All I know about her is that Oprah was backing some show of hers. And that she has a bit of a maniacal laugh.

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Rachel Ray's $40/day show is a fraud; she "cheats" on the conversion rates.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Bluntly put, tips are always optional. They can't force you to leave a tip.

I agree - but you will be labeled a "cheap bastard" (in slappy words) whether it is fair being labeled a cheap bastard if you don't tip the appropriate amount - it will happen. Same as it isn't fair for the waitstaff to have to foot any difference if they get tables all night with cheap bastards and have to pay out of pocket to the busboys/bartenders, etc. Fair or not - that is the custom/system in US.

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Mame wrote:

Tips may be expected, but they are not mandatory. You speak as if a tip is OWED. What if the person cannot afford a tip? Who is the judge and jury on that one? If the service is abysmal, should they still be tipped?

1.) If you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to eat out and doing so would be a poor choice in money management.
2.) I'd be happy to be the judge and jury for you.
3.) If service is abysmal the tip should be reduced but not eliminated.

Mame wrote:

Anyone who works in an industry where they depend on tips to make ends meet is doing so at their own peril. It's a CHOICE they made of their own free will. No one is forcing them to work as a server or bellboy or porter. They can choose, like everyone else, to get educated or trained in something where they don't need to depend on tips.

1.) And choosing not to tip is a choice also. As is thinking you are cheap if you don't do it.
2.) My sister is getting educated so she doesn't have to be a waitress anymore. Thankfully there are more people that do tip so that she can afford to get a better education.

Mame wrote:

Are we supposed to believe that we owe them their living (via tips)? That is ludicrous. Do I also owe the owner a living by eating at their establishment once a week? I can choose where I eat and what I tip. I don't owe them anything.

You most certainly do owe the owner. If you don't want to give him money, don't eat there. Like you already pointed out it is a choice. The owner is providing a service which you are then entitled to pay for. As far as tipping goes... there is no law saying that you have to tip... but I certainly hope that the service you receive is as cheap as you unwillingness to pay for it. You pay their wage no matter what... whether it is in tips or a higher wage... you as a customer pay their salary. If you don't want to do that... then you should not eat out.

Mame wrote:

Non-tippers have their own reasons for not tipping, and calling them cheap is judgemental. Perhaps some think tippers are sheep.

i don't care if you think I am a sheep. I still think you are cheap.

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They also have the option to eat at fast food restaurants where tips are not expected.

I agree with jpinM on everything he said in his last post.

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You don't even know how much I tip, so how can you think I'm cheap? As I've pointed out before, I do tip. And I said the norm in Canada is between 15 and 20%... you are certainly entitled to your opinion but it's obviously not well-informed.

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And since tips are optional, your rules are irrelevant.

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jp wrote :
"1.) If you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to eat out and doing so would be a poor choice in money management."

that's the way i see it too !!!
in our early days(YEARS :wink: ) in canada , money was a somewhat scarce commodity - so we didn't eat out often , but when we did , we still left the appropriate tip (plus a little extra) .
i guess i inheritated that from my dad and grand-dad who always thought that giving a good tip for good service was simply "the right thing to do " .

(reminds me of an old joke . a passenger gave a new york cabbie a 10% tip . the taxi-driver didn't seem very satisfied with it . so the passenger asked : "that's correct , isn't it ? " .
cabbie : "it's correct , but it ain't right !" :wink: ).
hbg

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Mame wrote:

You don't even know how much I tip, so how can you think I'm cheap? As I've pointed out before, I do tip. And I said the norm in Canada is between 15 and 20%... you are certainly entitled to your opinion but it's obviously not well-informed.

If you do tip the standard amount then I am not including you in the cheap column. However, I have said that those that do not tip are cheap, so I must have cut close to the nerve because you sure are taking exception to it.

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Thanks for the backup, CI and hambuger.

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jpinMilwaukee wrote:

2.) My sister is getting educated so she doesn't have to be a waitress anymore. Thankfully there are more people that do tip so that she can afford to get a better education.

You see, another difference here; waiteresse/waiters have - like any other profession - to serve an apprenticeship of three years here, which includes going to school (college).

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