0
   

The Dark Ages -- Live From the Middle East!

 
 
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 08:54 am
The Dark Ages -- Live From the Middle East!
By Victor Davis Hanson

The most frightening aspect of the present war is how easily our pre-modern enemies from the Middle East have brought a stunned postmodern world back into the Dark Ages.

Students of history are sickened when they read of the long-ago, gruesome practice of beheading. How brutal were those societies that chopped off the heads of Cicero, Sir Thomas More and Marie Antoinette. And how lucky we thought we were to have evolved from such elemental barbarity.

Twenty-four hundred years ago, Socrates was executed for unpopular speech. The 18th-century European Enlightenment gave people freedom to express views formerly censored by clerics and the state. Just imagine what life was like once upon a time when no one could write music, compose fiction or paint without court or church approval?

Over 400 years before the birth of Christ, ancient Greek literary characters, from Lysistrata to Antigone, reflected the struggle for sexual equality. The subsequent notion that women could vote, divorce, dress or marry as they pleased was a millennia-long struggle.

It is almost surreal now to read about the elemental hatred of Jews in the Spanish Inquisition, 19th-century Russian pogroms or the Holocaust. Yet here we are revisiting the old horrors of the savage past.

Beheading? As we saw with Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, our Neanderthal enemies in the Middle East have resurrected that ancient barbarity - and married it with 21st-century technology to beam the resulting gore instantaneously onto our computer screens. Xerxes and Attila, who stuck their victims' heads on poles for public display, would've been thrilled by such a gruesome show.

Who would have thought centuries after the Enlightenment that sophisticated Europeans - in fear of radical Islamists - would be afraid to write a novel, put on an opera, draw a cartoon, film a documentary or have their pope discuss comparative theology?

The astonishing fact is not just that millions of women worldwide in 2006 are still veiled from head-to-toe, trapped in arranged marriages, subject to polygamy, honor killings and forced circumcision, or are without the right to vote or appear alone in public. What is more baffling is that in the West, liberal Europeans are often wary of protecting female citizens from the excesses of Sharia law - sometimes even fearful of asking women to unveil their faces for purposes of simple identification and official conversation.

Who these days is shocked that Israel is hated by Arab nations and threatened with annihilation by radical Iran? Instead, the surprise is that even in places like Paris or Seattle, Jews are singled out and killed for the apparent crime of being Jewish.

Since Sept. 11, the West has fought enemies who are determined to bring back the nightmarish world that we thought was long past. And there are lessons Westerners can learn from radical Islamists' ghastly efforts.

First, the Western liberal tradition is fragile and can still disappear. Just because we have sophisticated cell phones, CAT scanners and jets does not ensure that we are permanently civilized or safe. Technology used by the civilized for positive purposes can easily be manipulated by barbarians for destruction.

Second, the Enlightenment is not always lost on the battlefield. It can be surrendered through either fear or indifference as well. Westerners fearful of terrorist reprisals themselves shut down a production of a Mozart opera in Berlin deemed offensive to Muslims. Few came to the aid of a Salman Rushdie or Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh when their unpopular expression earned death threats from Islamists. Van Gogh, of course, was ultimately killed.

The Goths and Vandals did not sack Rome solely through the power of their hordes; they also relied on the paralysis of Roman elites who no longer knew what it was to be Roman - much less whether it was any better than the alternative.

Third, civilization is forfeited with a whimper, not a bang. Insidiously, we have allowed radical Islamists to redefine the primordial into the not-so-bad. Perhaps women in head-to-toe burkas in Europe prefer them? Maybe that crass German opera was just too over the top after all? Aren't both parties equally to blame in the Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan wars?

To grasp the flavor of our own Civil War, impersonators now don period dress and reconstruct the battles of Shiloh or Gettysburg. But we need no so such historical reenactment of the Dark Ages. You see, they are back with us - live almost daily from the Middle East.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 510 • Replies: 15
No top replies

 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 01:40 pm
And some think the Allies can change that mindset?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 02:01 pm
I think the author could maybe use a map as many of the things he describes are not widespread in the middle east. Daniel Pearl was killed in Afghanistan. Female circumcision is popular in Africa, not the middle east. Head to toe drapings are also mostly in Afghanistan. And killing Jews just for being Jewish? Paris and Seattle are also not in the middle east.

I do agree with one thing he says, though.
Quote:
the Enlightenment is not always lost on the battlefield. It can be surrendered through either fear or indifference as well.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 02:09 pm
This is ironic.

The practices the author decries are

- Use of inhumane tactics in war.
- Repression of Women.
- Lack of tolerance for other cultures.
- Racism.
- Censorship
- Lack of freedom of religion.

Are all conservative values. The problem isn't that there are too many liberals... the problem is that there are too few.

The difference between these conservative governments with traditional values (that many of us agree are barbaric) and western societies is that in Western societies liberal have the ability to insist on fairness, speak out against the use of torture, fight racism and insist on freedom and respect for all religions and cultures.

Who is it who is fighting to keep the US from using torture? Who is opposing censureship? Who is keeping religious zealots from forcing their values on others? Who is fighting for the rights of Women and minorities?

Don't blame the liberals. Liberals are the difference between free societies and repressive ones.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 02:11 pm
Someone thinks 'post-modern' is to be aspired to?

Confused
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:49 pm
Of course, that's merely McG's opinion.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 12:17 am
Re: The Dark Ages -- Live From the Middle East!
McGentrix wrote:
The Dark Ages -- Live From the Middle East!
By Victor Davis Hanson

The most frightening aspect of the present war is how easily our pre-modern enemies from the Middle East have brought a stunned postmodern world back into the Dark Ages.

Students of history are sickened when they read of the long-ago, gruesome practice of beheading. How brutal were those societies that chopped off the heads of Cicero, Sir Thomas More and Marie Antoinette. And how lucky we thought we were to have evolved from such elemental barbarity.

Twenty-four hundred years ago, Socrates was executed for unpopular speech. The 18th-century European Enlightenment gave people freedom to express views formerly censored by clerics and the state. Just imagine what life was like once upon a time when no one could write music, compose fiction or paint without court or church approval?

Over 400 years before the birth of Christ, ancient Greek literary characters, from Lysistrata to Antigone, reflected the struggle for sexual equality. The subsequent notion that women could vote, divorce, dress or marry as they pleased was a millennia-long struggle.

It is almost surreal now to read about the elemental hatred of Jews in the Spanish Inquisition, 19th-century Russian pogroms or the Holocaust. Yet here we are revisiting the old horrors of the savage past.

Beheading? As we saw with Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, our Neanderthal enemies in the Middle East have resurrected that ancient barbarity - and married it with 21st-century technology to beam the resulting gore instantaneously onto our computer screens. Xerxes and Attila, who stuck their victims' heads on poles for public display, would've been thrilled by such a gruesome show.

Who would have thought centuries after the Enlightenment that sophisticated Europeans - in fear of radical Islamists - would be afraid to write a novel, put on an opera, draw a cartoon, film a documentary or have their pope discuss comparative theology?

The astonishing fact is not just that millions of women worldwide in 2006 are still veiled from head-to-toe, trapped in arranged marriages, subject to polygamy, honor killings and forced circumcision, or are without the right to vote or appear alone in public. What is more baffling is that in the West, liberal Europeans are often wary of protecting female citizens from the excesses of Sharia law - sometimes even fearful of asking women to unveil their faces for purposes of simple identification and official conversation.

No, the astonishing thing is that an intellect such as Hanson who can write adroidly of Spartan supremacy over Xerxes to bloodfests at Shiloh misses the point. The West endures the retrograde and renegade Middle East because of one thing, oil: and were a consistent effort by advanced industrial nations, i.e., America, Japan, and Europe to offer alternative sources of energy we could tell the Muslim world and all their mullahs to go pound sand up their asses. but Hanson doesn't because that drives a stake right into the heart for the basis for real US economic power.

Note one thing, this week revealed the biggest world quarterly profits in corporate history, by Exxon-Mobile, $10,000,000,000.

In other words, we subsidize their madness and give them the gold by which they buy the guns to kill us.

and I find that astonishing, not that semi-feudal people who wipe their asses with their owns hands act like savages.


Who these days is shocked that Israel is hated by Arab nations and threatened with annihilation by radical Iran? Instead, the surprise is that even in places like Paris or Seattle, Jews are singled out and killed for the apparent crime of being Jewish.

Since Sept. 11, the West has fought enemies who are determined to bring back the nightmarish world that we thought was long past. And there are lessons Westerners can learn from radical Islamists' ghastly efforts.

First, the Western liberal tradition is fragile and can still disappear. Just because we have sophisticated cell phones, CAT scanners and jets does not ensure that we are permanently civilized or safe. Technology used by the civilized for positive purposes can easily be manipulated by barbarians for destruction.

Second, the Enlightenment is not always lost on the battlefield. It can be surrendered through either fear or indifference as well. Westerners fearful of terrorist reprisals themselves shut down a production of a Mozart opera in Berlin deemed offensive to Muslims. Few came to the aid of a Salman Rushdie or Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh when their unpopular expression earned death threats from Islamists. Van Gogh, of course, was ultimately killed.

The Goths and Vandals did not sack Rome solely through the power of their hordes; they also relied on the paralysis of Roman elites who no longer knew what it was to be Roman - much less whether it was any better than the alternative.

Third, civilization is forfeited with a whimper, not a bang. Insidiously, we have allowed radical Islamists to redefine the primordial into the not-so-bad. Perhaps women in head-to-toe burkas in Europe prefer them? Maybe that crass German opera was just too over the top after all? Aren't both parties equally to blame in the Palestinian, Iraqi and Afghan wars?

To grasp the flavor of our own Civil War, impersonators now don period dress and reconstruct the battles of Shiloh or Gettysburg. But we need no so such historical reenactment of the Dark Ages. You see, they are back with us - live almost daily from the Middle East.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 07:52 am
Well, not everyone can afford paper.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:10 am
I'd be more impressed with his rhetoric if he gave examples of Neanderthal brutality.

Any evidence that beheadings are more brutal than, say, electrocution?

Here's irony for you...

Quote:
the Western liberal tradition is fragile and can still disappear.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:11 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This is ironic.

The practices the author decries are

- Use of inhumane tactics in war.
- Repression of Women.
- Lack of tolerance for other cultures.
- Racism.
- Censorship
- Lack of freedom of religion.

Are all conservative values. The problem isn't that there are too many liberals... the problem is that there are too few.

The difference between these conservative governments with traditional values (that many of us agree are barbaric) and western societies is that in Western societies liberal have the ability to insist on fairness, speak out against the use of torture, fight racism and insist on freedom and respect for all religions and cultures.

Who is it who is fighting to keep the US from using torture? Who is opposing censureship? Who is keeping religious zealots from forcing their values on others? Who is fighting for the rights of Women and minorities?

Don't blame the liberals. Liberals are the difference between free societies and repressive ones.

Word.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:32 am
DrewDad wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
This is ironic.

The practices the author decries are

- Use of inhumane tactics in war.
- Repression of Women.
- Lack of tolerance for other cultures.
- Racism.
- Censorship
- Lack of freedom of religion.

Are all conservative values. The problem isn't that there are too many liberals... the problem is that there are too few.

The difference between these conservative governments with traditional values (that many of us agree are barbaric) and western societies is that in Western societies liberal have the ability to insist on fairness, speak out against the use of torture, fight racism and insist on freedom and respect for all religions and cultures.

Who is it who is fighting to keep the US from using torture? Who is opposing censureship? Who is keeping religious zealots from forcing their values on others? Who is fighting for the rights of Women and minorities?

Don't blame the liberals. Liberals are the difference between free societies and repressive ones.

Word.


Word? What word would that be? 'Puke' perhaps? 'Bullshyte' maybe?
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:32 am
DrewDad wrote:
I'd be more impressed with his rhetoric if he gave examples of Neanderthal brutality.

Any evidence that beheadings are more brutal than, say, electrocution?...

So, Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl were convicted murderers, afforded a fair trial and opportunities for appeal?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:36 am
I'm guessing they were tried by a military commission.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:39 am
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm guessing they were tried by a military commission.

For murder, right? And they were undoubtedly represented by counsel who acted on their behalf, and tried by a jury of their peers. Sounds okay to me. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 08:49 am
I understand why you choose to respond seriously to admittedly gruesome and ironic humor.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Oct, 2006 09:03 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
I'd be more impressed with his rhetoric if he gave examples of Neanderthal brutality.

Any evidence that beheadings are more brutal than, say, electrocution?...

So, Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl were convicted murderers, afforded a fair trial and opportunities for appeal?

So you're claiming that Berg and Pearl were executed by the state?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » The Dark Ages -- Live From the Middle East!
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/29/2024 at 12:26:45