Wearing a veil for just one day ...

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Wearing the niqab for just one day in London is sufficient to run into hostility:

Quote:

'Even other Muslims turn and look at me'

Muslim journalist Zaiba Malik had never worn the niqab. But with everyone from Jack Straw to Tessa Jowell weighing in with their views on the veil, she decided to put one on for the day. She was shocked by how it made her feel - and how strongly strangers reacted to it

Tuesday October 17, 2006
The Guardian

'Idon't wear the niqab because I don't think it's necessary," says the woman behind the counter in the Islamic dress shop in east London. "We do sell quite a few of them, though." She shows me how to wear the full veil. I would have thought that one size fits all but it turns out I'm a size 54. I pay my £39 and leave with three pieces of black cloth folded inside a bag.The next morning I put these three pieces on as I've been shown. First the black robe, or jilbab, which zips up at the front. Then the long rectangular hijab that wraps around my head and is secured with safety pins. Finally the niqab, which is a square of synthetic material with adjustable straps, a slit of about five inches for my eyes and a tiny heart-shaped bit of netting, which I assume is to let some air in.

I look at myself in my full-length mirror. I'm horrified. I have disappeared and somebody I don't recognise is looking back at me. I cannot tell how old she is, how much she weighs, whether she has a kind or a sad face, whether she has long or short hair, whether she has any distinctive facial features at all. I've seen this person in black on the television and in newspapers, in the mountains of Afghanistan and the cities of Saudi Arabia, but she doesn't look right here, in my bedroom in a terraced house in west London. I do what little I can to personalise my appearance. I put on my oversized man's watch and make sure the bottoms of my jeans are visible. I'm so taken aback by how dissociated I feel from my own reflection that it takes me over an hour to pluck up the courage to leave the house.

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Pics from the Guardian's print edition, G2, pages 10 & 11

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Thanks for the article, Walter. I am going to send it to my friends.

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In effect, wearing a veil renders a woman invisible, a neuter, a nothing. It is a way of taking the individuality from the woman, and rendering her a true "wallflower", no more formidable than some potted plant.

On top of that, the outfit itself is totally inappropriate, and extremely uncomfortable in the hot countries in which many of them are worn.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

On top of that, the outfit itself is totally inappropriate, and extremely uncomfortable in the hot countries in which many of them are worn.

Have you ever worn one?
I haven't, but it always surprises me that women who wear them insist they are not uncomfortable and additionally give protection from the sun!

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Very interesting article, Walter. I have often wondered what it would be like (but never wanted to spend the money on a niqab to experiment). I suspected that I would feel much as this writer does. I have tried, and failed, to understand a culture that demands so much subjugation from half of its members. I can only see some very small advantages (shoplifting must be a breeze, fooling the menfolk of your identity would be very easy) but just cannot conceive of a lifetime of this.

At the school that I am now attending, there is a large Moslem student population. There are huge variations in style of dress, from typical jeans and t-shirt to one girl (?) in full niqab. But even traditional clothing such as head scarves and shalwar jameez do not inhibit any of these females, from what I can observe, as long as their face is free to express -- happiness, approval, disgust, anger, whatever.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

In effect, wearing a veil renders a woman invisible, a neuter, a nothing. It is a way of taking the individuality from the woman, and rendering her a true "wallflower", no more formidable than some potted plant.

On top of that, the outfit itself is totally inappropriate, and extremely uncomfortable in the hot countries in which many of them are worn.

Not at all sure about that, I lived in Saudi Arabia from '46 til '58 (as a child) and it was often explained to me that the clothing worn by both arab men and women was very specifically designed to protect them from the intense sun and heat of the arabian desert.

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Well, dang. You don't expect not having any knowledge about a little thing like what the wearers themselves say to affect the strongly felt opinions, do you?

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Bohne & Dys- No, I have never worn one. I do know though, when a moved into a sub-tropical climate, that I had little use for black clothing. Black absorbs the heat, while lighter colors reflect. I would think that a woman would roast in that getup in the summer.

There is no doubt that some of the clothing DOES protect against the sun. I don't think though, that unless you are in a desert during a severe windstorm, that covering everything except your eyes would confer more protection than regular clothing. Why don't the men wear black, if protection was the reason for the clothing?

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

In effect, wearing a veil renders a woman invisible, a neuter, a nothing. It is a way of taking the individuality from the woman, and rendering her a true "wallflower", no more formidable than some potted plant.

On top of that, the outfit itself is totally inappropriate, and extremely uncomfortable in the hot countries in which many of them are worn.

I disagree with your assement, here, phoenix. A Muslim woman wears a hijab for the very same reason an Orthodox Jewish woman wears a wig. Both groups of women cover their hair and bodies, when in public because of their sense of modesty and out of respect for their own bodies.

As the Prophet has said in Surah 33: 59 of the Qur'an:

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Tell your wives, your daughters, and the women folk of believers to draw their veils closely around them. This will facilitate their being identified for who they are and will save them from molestation. God is forgiving and merciful.

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Miller wrote:

I disagree with your assement, here, phoenix. A Muslim woman wears a hijab for the very same reason an Orthodox Jewish woman wears a wig. Both groups of women cover their hair and bodies, when in public because of their sense of modesty and out of respect for their own bodies.

Oh, I am not in disagreement with you. But let us look at the root of this practice. If what you are saying is so, would it not follow, that men would
cover themselves in similar ways? The thing is, both in orthodox Judaism and Islam, women are perceived as sex objects. They cover themselves so as not to be a "temptation" for men.

In orthodox Judaism, as in Islam, women and men pray separately. That is because the mere presence of a woman is supposed to take a man's mind away his prayers. Orthodox Jewish women go to a "mikveh", or ritual bath, after their period, so as to make themselves "clean" for their husbands, before they resume sexual relations.

In all these practices, there is gross inequality between men and women.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

I do know though, when a moved into a sub-tropical climate, that I had little use for black clothing. Black absorbs the heat, while lighter colors reflect. I would think that a woman would roast in that getup in the summer.

If black really aborbs the heat why don't people living in sub-tropical and tropical countries try to get a white-as-white can be skin - the skin is certainly more important than the clothes! :wink:

Generally, black clothes are worn because of
- availability of color fabrics
- costs
- personal preference
- custom
- thickness of the fabric layers.

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This is interesting.

I wonder what would be the experience of a non-Muslim woman wearing this?

Also, I wonder about a man wearing one, what he would come out of the experience with.

I see a fair number of women wearing scarves and long sleeves/pants etc., but I've only seen one elderly woman wearing the full hijab, and even then, her face was uncovered.

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Walter wrote:

If black really aborbs the heat why don't people living in sub-tropical and tropical countries try to get a white-as-white can be skin - the skin is certainly more important than the clothes!

I really hope that you are joking, Walter. If one notices the differences in the color of people from the colder to the warmer climates, you will see that people in cold countries have much lighter skins than people from warm countries. This explains it nicely:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

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Melanin and human adaptation
Melanocytes insert granules of melanin into specialized cellular vesicles called melanosomes. These are then transferred into the other skin cells of the human epidermis. The melanosomes in each recipient cell accumulate atop the cell nucleus, where they protect the nuclear DNA from mutations caused by the ionizing radiation of the sun's ultraviolet rays. People whose ancestors lived for long periods in the regions of the globe near the equator generally have larger quantities of eumelanin in their skins. This makes their skins brown or black and protects them against high levels of exposure to the sun, which more frequently results in melanomas in fairer-skinned people.

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Bohne wrote:

Quote:

Have you ever worn one?
I haven't, but it always surprises me that women who wear them insist they are not uncomfortable and additionally give protection from the sun!

It would surprise some people on here to know that I HAVE worn the veil, and lived the life of a Muslim woman, I have little to say on the matter - my views are well known.

They ARE uncomfortable (especially in the hot weather)

They DO interfere with everyday life

They DO cause both mental and physical problems (an aspect of purdah rarely discussed).

It is un-natural for human beings to have their faces covered.

The covering of the face is NOT a requirement in Islam.

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Quote:

The thing is, both in orthodox Judaism and Islam, women are perceived as sex objects. They cover themselves so as not to be a "temptation" for men.

While Muslim women and Orthodox Jewish women are required to cover themselves "so as not to be a temptation for men", it is because in Biblical times and the times of the Prophet, women were considered to be property and men wanted to protect their "property" .

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Walter wrote:
If black really aborbs the heat why don't people living in sub-tropical and tropical countries try to get a white-as-white can be skin - the skin is certainly more important than the clothes!

I really hope that you are joking, Walter. If one notices the differences in the color of people from the colder to the warmer climates, you will see that people in cold countries have much lighter skins than people from warm countries. This explains it nicely:

Well, I was responding to

Quote:

Black absorbs the heat, while lighter colors reflect. I would think that a woman would roast in that getup in the summer.

:wink:

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Miller wrote:

Quote:
The thing is, both in orthodox Judaism and Islam, women are perceived as sex objects. They cover themselves so as not to be a "temptation" for men.

While Muslim women and Orthodox Jewish women are required to cover themselves "so as not to be a temptation for men", it is because in Biblical times and the times of the Prophet, women were considered to be property and men wanted to protect their "property" .

Miller- That's right. And today, many centuries away from the time that the bible was written, amongst the orthodox of both religions, women are still considered "property". I rest my case!

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Quote:

I really hope that you are joking, Walter. If one notices the differences in the color of people from the colder to the warmer climates, you will see that people in cold countries have much lighter skins than people from warm countries.

Also, there is a difference in the rates of skin cancer among the populations with light vs dark skin.
Incidentally, black people do get skin cancer, which often goes undetected in part, due to ill-informed
non-black dermatologists.

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Quote:

I would think that a woman would roast in that getup in the summer.

Women who wear and have worn such garments have become acclimated to them, in much the same way that people who live in Maine have become acclimated to cold winter weather and residents of Florida have become acclimated to hot Florida summers.

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Wearing a veil for just one day ...

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