Wearing a veil for just one day ...

Again, yes there is much that is bad about modern Islam and oppression of women. I'd love to see that go away. I just think that outlawing the wearing of veils is its own kind of oppression, and that this article was written in that context. ("But with everyone from Jack Straw to Tessa Jowell weighing in with their views on the veil...")

I fully agree.

Sorry about the peronal anecdotes, I now realise that googled stuff obviously holds more weight round here....

Here you go then....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=410376&in_page_id=1770

She looks like a walking advertisement for Fieldcrest.

I agree that it would be wrong to outlaw the wearing of the veil...

The answer is in Education and informed choice.

No doubt about it.

Well that Guardian article is done by a Muslim walking through London as well ...

From one of Sozobe's posts, it isn't a quote of Soz though:

"Since September 11th there has been a huge increase in the number of women, particularly young women who started wearing the hijab. And from what the women tell me, most do so by choice."

Perhaps they sympathize with terrorism?

Do you know that since 9/11 that the biggest source if identity theft in the US is no longer Nigeria, but rather, arab counties?

Many things have changed since 9/11. When I see a veil, I see the enemy. That is one thing that changed for me.

I remember a discussion, about eight years ago, when I was co-ordinator of an area where only Germans from Russian republics lived (about 2,000).

When asked why they were wearing a veil (that were mostly only women aged 40+), the answer always had been a reference to the bible:
And he says: "Every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered, dishonoureth her head"[1 Cor. 11:5]

Muslims are good people. Really....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/17/world/middleeast/17christians.html?hp&ex=1161144000&en=c060e902ed05fbb4&ei=5094&partner=homepage

I agree that "Muslim" has a lot to do with the article I posted when I started this thread.

I didn't intend, however, to start another broad discussion about Muslims and how bad they are.

My point is that wearing the veil is being sympathetic to extremism and very, very bad behaviour.

...the bomb in the baby carriage was wired through the radio....

In some cases, yes, but I don't think that we can make a blanket evaluation. Muslim women wear veils for all sorts of reasons, most having nothing to do with extremism.

In Western cultures we use clothes, hairdos and jewelry to attract the other sex; not unlike peacocks showing off.
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One cannot compare that with the Muslim veil, they are opposites. The veil hides all and is proof that the wearer belongs to the husband. The high heels are there to enhance the legs and attract the looks of others.
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No Muslim man hides his body; he has free rein.
In any case, religious rules are for believers, not the general public.

If they do so by choice, then I see it as sympathy for bad behaviour.



Never forget.

You started a lot of own threads, cjhsa. Would you mind posting such on yours instead of here?

I agree, and appreciate the "education" part. That's important.

I think I actually mostly agree with Lord Ellpus -- I fully accept and deplore the fact that there are a lot of Muslim women who wear the veil and would prefer not to. The difference is just whether there are any women who freely prefer TO wear it. I think there are, because I've met some and read about many more.

Detano, it's not just married women who wear the veil. And yes, it's often about being attractive to the opposite sex within the culture. Women (and men) often talk about veils being graceful, modest (seen as a good thing), and generally becoming.

Heels are there to enhance the legs and attract the looks of others -- is that not itself terribly oppressive? Women as objects rather than people? Crippling themselves just for the sake of getting a man's attention? (No, I'm not against heels, my point is how easily that language can be used to describe something that we in Western cultures think is quite normal.)

(Ignoring cjhsa to respect Walter's comments.)

But there must be differences. Most younger Muslim women here don't wear a veil - I would guess 95% don't.
And I guess, many of the others choose to wear it, only a few might be "forced".

This really seems to be different to other countries (and we have a higher percentage of Muslims here than e.g. in the USA or the UK).

I still say it is sympathy for the devil.

And as far as that English thing goes, this is my new message on my answering machine:

"If you'd like to leave your message in English, press 1, otherwise, press 2 to be disconnected".

people wear all kinds of different 'customes' for all kinds of reasons .
just sit back for a moment and visualize what some people wear that appear on TV shows and interview shows - not everyone would agree that it is always appropriate , but we seem to be able to 'tolerate' it - some more , some less .
so why not let women - and men too , for all i care - wear a veil , if that's what they seem to want or if that is the custom .
i think i pointed out some time ago that sikhs joining the 'royal canadian monted police' are permitted to wear their distinctive head-dress . while there was some displeasure shown by some citizens - 'it's not the canadian way' - , some army veterans pointed out that sikhs were good enough to fight in the war wearing their head-dress , why should they now not be allowed to wear it serving as constables . btw the fuss and furour it caused is hardly remembered anymore .

as far as being 'forced' to wear the veil , what about the little girls being 'forced' by their parents to dress up like little lolitas so that they can compete in 'fashion shows' ? of course , the parents have a ready answer : " little debbie absolutely loves dressing up "
how about boys as young as five years being forced to dress in a hockey outfit and being put on the ice to slug it out with the other kids ("it'll make a man out of him" - yea , for sure) . CBC-TV actually made a documentary where they went into the kids dressing room after the game - there were a lot of unhappy little kids , but did the parents or juvenile hockey groups want to hear about it ? of course not !

if how we dress and what we wear , is what we worry about ; well , there are a lot more important things to be concerned about imo .

here is a little anectode based upon personal experience re . dresscode :
in the early 1960's my boss told me that i was invited to attend the company annual meeting . this was a rather small affair with no more than about 100 "men" attending in our small city (you are right , i said "men" - meaning men only ) .
it was always followed by a reception where the personnel assistant (today called : manager) was present wearing a new hat and serving 'savouries' - yes , mary , the personnel assistant was allowe to circulate amongst the men and serve them tasty snacks (she actually took her duty very seriously and made sure that the young fellows would not get too much liquor into their delicate systems :wink: .
anyway , when my boss extented the invitation , he stressed that i must wear a suit , white shirt and tie !
i was a bit indignant - of course i didn't say anything - because i thought he must know that i would dress 'properly' without being asked .
was i ever surprised when i went to the meeting : the chairman and several other boardmembers were wearing 'checkered' shirts !
as my boss explained to me : they are the bosses , they can wear whatever they want ! end of discussion !

i say : get real !
if that's all you have to worry about ... (you can fill in the rest).
from someone 'who had to be told how to dress' .
hbg

i say : let's outlaw wearing a kilt because ... !
hbg