okie
 
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 11:41 am
Will the mainstream press, Jesse Jackson, and all the Democrats see this as very important? Of course not. One big reason why Democrats oppose the requirement of providing legitimate IDs to vote. Democrats desperately need bogus voters, dead voters, illegal immigrants, felons, people that vote in two states as some New Yorkers did in NY and Florida, etc.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15734045.htm

http://www.epionline.org/news_detail.cfm?rid=67

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/10-13-2004/0002275937&EDATE=
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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 6,880 • Replies: 97

 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 11:57 am
Quote:
Hurd said often times the applications in question have proven to be legitimate, honest mistakes or not fraud at all.


But don't let facts get in the way of a good story.....


Must be fraud. No one would ever do a duplicate voter registration unless they were attempting fraud. Rolling Eyes

I wonder how an illegible voter registration form is voter fraud. Wouldn't an illegible form mean they can't register a voter?

Have you committed voter fraud twice if you do a duplicate voter registration because your first one was illegible?
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:22 pm
By crying "election fraud" in advance of the coming mid-term election, the Democrats reveal their lack of confidence in winning. What will be their stance en re. election fraud if they should actually win big?

Oh yes, the Republicans manipulated the vote so that in a couple of years they can blame the Democrats for >>>>fill in the blank<<<<<. Sure, and begorrah.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:28 pm
Of course, this case is Republicans crying 'election fraud,' Ash. Do you think it is a sign that they lack confidence in the upcoming election?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:39 pm
The only people I've seen crying election fraud are Democrats, liberals, lefties and folks who hate America on general principles. What Republicans here at A2K are crying election fraud?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:45 pm
Who? Hmm, perhaps, I don't know, Okie, an admitted Republican, who started this about allegations of voter fraud?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:50 pm
Following a report in today's Albuquerque Journal, page 5 :



http://i9.tinypic.com/2lbz8ye.jpg
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:52 pm
It seemed to me that Okie was just defending the use of voter identification as an antidote to Democratic assertions that the GOP is hell bent on illegally manipulating the election.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 12:55 pm
Right, right. When okie says

Quote:
Democrats desperately need bogus voters, dead voters, illegal immigrants, felons, people that vote in two states as some New Yorkers did in NY and Florida, etc.


You interpret that as him not saying that the Dems are planning on and relying on voter fraud to win elections?

Really?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:06 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Who? Hmm, perhaps, I don't know, Okie, an admitted Republican, who started this about allegations of voter fraud?

Cycloptichorn


So an organization attempting to turn in thousands of fraudulant voter registrations does not concern Parados and Cyclops? If it isn't fraudulant, it is what I would call intentional sloppiness. I think they know their registrations include a very high percentage of invalid ones, but they do not care as long as they are Democrats. If this was an organization signing up mostly Republicans, including many fraudulant ones, you could bet we would be hearing alot more about it from Jesse Jackson, Howard Dean, etc. I've never had anyone trying to get me to register, at least not in recent memory. If you want to vote, simply go to the County Clerk's office and sign up.

Parados and Cyclops, are you in favor of a good system of ID to vote?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:10 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Following a report in today's Albuquerque Journal, page 5 :


Walter, I think that is simply a preemptive article to head off legitimate concerns about this.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 01:47 pm
I don't think, you actually read the preliminary report itself. Or did you?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 02:03 pm
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Who? Hmm, perhaps, I don't know, Okie, an admitted Republican, who started this about allegations of voter fraud?

Cycloptichorn


So an organization attempting to turn in thousands of fraudulant voter registrations does not concern Parados and Cyclops? If it isn't fraudulant, it is what I would call intentional sloppiness. I think they know their registrations include a very high percentage of invalid ones, but they do not care as long as they are Democrats. If this was an organization signing up mostly Republicans, including many fraudulant ones, you could bet we would be hearing alot more about it from Jesse Jackson, Howard Dean, etc. I've never had anyone trying to get me to register, at least not in recent memory. If you want to vote, simply go to the County Clerk's office and sign up.

Parados and Cyclops, are you in favor of a good system of ID to vote?


It isn't that I'm not concerned about it, I am. It's that Ash said that it was the Dems who are yelling about fraud and how it screws up elections. I quite rightly pointed out that you were yelling about it, and you are not a Dem, so did his conclusions about Dems hold for Republicans as well?

As to your question... I do believe that voter ID laws should be looked into. There's nothing wrong with forcing someone to have some fashion of identifying themselves in order to vote. I would hope that there would be many ways of doing so in order to accomadate those with unique individual situations, but it isn't a bad idea per se.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 02:17 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I don't think, you actually read the preliminary report itself. Or did you?


No I did not read the report, just the AP article you posted. My interpretation is that such reports imply we do not need to have a good ID system for voters, and that is what I mean about preemptive. There is gathering consensus in the U.S. to tighten up voting procedures to prevent fraud. The reason is to prevent voting by illegals, double voting, etc. Democrats are generally opposed to this. The reason I think they are opposed is that the most fraud likely occurs in heavily Democratic areas, inner cities, etc.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 03:01 pm
Perhaps you should read that report.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 03:16 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
As to your question... I do believe that voter ID laws should be looked into. There's nothing wrong with forcing someone to have some fashion of identifying themselves in order to vote. I would hope that there would be many ways of doing so in order to accomadate those with unique individual situations, but it isn't a bad idea per se.

Yes it is. Currently, voters do have to identify themselves at polling places, and there are safeguards in place in every jurisdiction to make sure that the person presenting him/herself to vote is actually that person. There's simply no need to have yet another layer of security on top of the one that is already in place, especially in light of the fact that there have been no reports of widespread polling place fraud (fraudulent voter registrations are something else entirely -- we're talking about the people who are already registered producing another form of ID in order to cast a ballot).

In theory, then, these laws are bad ideas. In practice, they're even worse. A proposed Georgia law, for instance, required voters to produce either a driver's license or a state ID card in order to vote. The state ID card, valid for five years, was only available at the DMV facilities, and only upon presenting a birth certificate and paying $20. So, registered voters without birth certificates, or without $20 (unless they swore they were indigent), or who couldn't get to a DMV office (there isn't even one in Atlanta), or who were just plain lazy couldn't get a card, and so were effectively disenfranchised. The courts, quite correctly, upheld an injunction against the law. A similar law in Missouri was struck down by the courts in September.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Oct, 2006 03:43 pm
Quote:
Currently, voters do have to identify themselves at polling places, and there are safeguards in place in every jurisdiction to make sure that the person presenting him/herself to vote is actually that person.


That's all I'm really concerned with. I don't have any special affinity for new laws or more restrictive ones, just making sure that there are adequate measures in place to tell if someone is who they say they are come voting time. When I said 'it isn't a bad idea per se,' that's the concept I was referring to, not neccessarily new laws.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 02:46 pm
okie wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Who? Hmm, perhaps, I don't know, Okie, an admitted Republican, who started this about allegations of voter fraud?

Cycloptichorn


So an organization attempting to turn in thousands of fraudulant voter registrations does not concern Parados and Cyclops? If it isn't fraudulant, it is what I would call intentional sloppiness. I think they know their registrations include a very high percentage of invalid ones, but they do not care as long as they are Democrats. If this was an organization signing up mostly Republicans, including many fraudulant ones, you could bet we would be hearing alot more about it from Jesse Jackson, Howard Dean, etc. I've never had anyone trying to get me to register, at least not in recent memory. If you want to vote, simply go to the County Clerk's office and sign up.

Parados and Cyclops, are you in favor of a good system of ID to vote?

Let us know when you find a group attempting to turn in thousands of "fraudulant " voter registrations.

So far you are presenting something that isn't much fraud.

An illegible voter registration can't really be fraudulant as far as voting is concerned. Since the registration is illegible it won't be added to the rolls.

Or are you saying the fraud is to attempt to keep people from voting by not registering them? That would be directly opposite of your claim though.

A duplicate voter registration certainly doesn't constitute fraud where I live. They would only use one of the registrations. There is certainly no allegation of an attempt to give a fraudulent address in your stories.

2 of your stories are from the same source by the way.

The problem okie is you didn't do much research on this one. I believe when the story broke it was about fraud being perpetrated on ACORN by the company they hired register voters. ACORN was paying per registration so the people doing the registering turned in duplicates and illegible ones to pad their numbers.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 04:33 pm
I have no problem with someone having to identify themselves as a registered voter, and to have safeguards in place to ensure that only one vote per voter is cast.

I'd like to see safeguards to ensure that the votes are accurately counted. (My concerns mainly involve electronic voting.)

The vote itself should remain secret, however.



I gotta ask: is there data to support the allegation that voting fraud constitutes a statisticly significant number of votes? If not, then why try to fix something that ain't broke?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Oct, 2006 10:18 pm
parados wrote:

The problem okie is you didn't do much research on this one. I believe when the story broke it was about fraud being perpetrated on ACORN by the company they hired register voters. ACORN was paying per registration so the people doing the registering turned in duplicates and illegible ones to pad their numbers.


Duh. Thats fraudulant in my opinion, Parados. The buck stops at ACORN.
 

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