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The Intelligent Designers - who were they?

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 04:10 pm
echi, I have not a clue re: the basis of the computer program that predicts eye evolution. Computers can do things very fast. Sometimes they do them correctly.

RL, the messing about with body symmetry is one of the areas of evolution that is well understood. The fossil record traces the first placozoans which had an asymmetric pattern. These were followed by the poriferans then the coelenterates. They were follwed by cnidarians .eaxh of these fossil animals had one-,teo, then, with the evolution of bilateria, the third layer of cells, the mesoderm evoleved. From the mesoderm grew the collective bilateral symmetric features. This one isnt even one of little or no data, the data packs the museums. Light sensitive tissues are common to all these animals and many, like theearly arthropods (bilateria) began developing hyaline eyes whereas later chordates developed the normal "inside out" eye where the light sensitive tissue overlies the lens. In arthropods the lens enclosed the light sensitive tissue(like a series of telescopes all piled together in a bundle of light sensitive crustals.


Id suggest reading the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology, rather than trying to reinvent something in your own mold.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 06:34 pm
hi Farmerman,

Then you have a clear conflict.

You have seemed to agree previously with the idea that the eye evolved perhaps as many as 40 or more times INDEPENDENTLY.

Did it start with a single patch of light sensitive skin in each of these instances?

How did many of these different critters end up with TWO eyes instead of one, if each one of these events was independent?
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 06:42 pm
echi wrote:
real life,

There is a tremendous advantage to having two eyes instead of just one. (Close one eye, and go jogging through a forest.)


I agree. I am rather attached to both of my eyes.

echi wrote:
I can't think of any advanced critters that have only one eye, so my guess is that the selection of this (two eyes) trait goes back quite a long way in the evolutionary chain..... much earlier than the development of skulls, for sure.


How did two identical organs evolve independently from 'a single patch of light sensitive skin'?

The same question could be asked about having two lungs, two kidneys, two arms, two legs, etc.

If the evolution of these structures originated as a localized (not originating in the brain or in the nervous system but due to a slight alteration in the form of a small area, such as the skin, of the organism) and gradually appearing event, how came about the exact same thing twice?

Answer: it didn't.

This is especially obvious when we consider that organs such as eyes and MANY others are said to have evolved over and over again INDEPENDENTLY of one another.
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Eorl
 
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Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:02 pm
real life, that's just silly.

How can two eyes come from a single fertilised cell? Just as impossible, you'd think.

I keep thinking you do understand evolution, but despute aspects in the way of Behe, but this post shows you understand very little.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Thu 19 Oct, 2006 07:37 pm
real life. I have no conflict. You need to be more sensitive to anatomy. Most of the unial, radial and pentagonal symmetry species all had bilaterally symmetric larvae. the concept of neotony (the retained characteristics of juvenile features) is translated from one species to another in thegenome. Its quite normal for bilaterally symmetric coelenterate larvae to have two eyespots then graduate to an adult form that has radial eyespots.

As far as evolving separately, I agree. . We see that eyes have taken many forms for many invertebrates and some vertebrates.
light sensitive cells to eye spots to hyaline eyes to inside out eyes are all controlled by the same gene(pax 6) , whether its a scallop, a spider, or a simian. The number of eyes are controlled by the genes that govern the cephalic frame.
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