neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:16 am
fresco wrote:
neologist,

Given that all defintions themselves depend on words there is inevitably a potential infinite regress for any concept. To single out "evil" on "biblical grounds" is trivial.
So, you're saying we can't define evil?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:03 pm
I am saying we can reach a consensus with respect to a mutual situation in which the term "evil" is meaningful to us, in that it informs our subsequent actions. I am following Wittgenstein...."meaning is use".
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:05 pm
A humanistic definition. OK.

I submit there also exists an absolute.
0 Replies
 
baddog1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:53 pm
fresco wrote:
If we define evil as the deliberate infliction of harm or suffering on another animate being then the question about adultery involves (a) was it deliberate ?(b) did it cause harm or suffering ?


(a) What do you mean? How could making the choice to commit adultery not be deliberate?

(b) Do you feel there are cases where adultery did not cause harm or suffering to someone along the line?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:59 pm
Evil is spiritual darkness...

Darkness exists because the SON/SUN has not risen and radiated light and love into the hearts of people. The inept rule of law is preferred over the "golden" rule.

Evil is an immature ideology of hate and externally imposed judgments instead of internally directed spiritual revelation. Evil is a false light of the night (moon) that has usurped the radiant light of the spiritual self image.

For the internal spirit cannot guide the psyche if guidance is externally imposed.

So evil is the implosion of the mind due to the lack of inner guidance.

Evil is indeed against life... spiritual life and spiritual life is a living entity within rather than a dead construct from without.

Just as the moon selectively steals it's light from the sun and eventually eclipses the sun and leaves the world in darkness, evil eclipses the true message of the son of God and leaves the soul in darkness...

I have known for nearly 20 years Jesus' ministry was only ONE year and not three. Theists have almost unanimously taught the three year ministry of Jesus. They don't have faith that Jesus could do all that he did in his actual ministry in only ONE year.

This is not to encourage SUN/SON worship. For it is the son/sun who is also only an "image" of God.

Here is an article I found last night I think many of you will find it rather interesting. I certainly did...


Counting Down to Christmas and the Birth of the SUN - Oops I mean SON

Dennis Diehl

Those familiar with the Worldwide Church of God know that after many years of observing what most would call "Jewish Holidays" but with Christian significance, the Church has now switched to the more generically acceptable Christians holidays, such as Easter and Christmas. In the past, these Spring Equinox, Summer Solstice, Fall Equinox and Winter Solstice holidays were replaced by the recognition of Passover over Easter in the Spring and the Festival of Tabernacles in the Fall over Christmas. While no religious holy day springs from a vacuum, and the Jewish Holy Days, also sprang from the pagan agricultural holidays that preceded them, I wonder if the Worldwide Church of God, and all Christians would be intrigued and challenged to realize just exactly which "Son" was being born on Christmas and why?

Plainly put, the story of Jesus' one year ministry as described in Mark, Matthew and Luke, is an astrological allegory of the journey the literal SUN takes through the twelve signs of the Zodiac in one year. The journey of the SON/SUN starts at the birth of the SUN and SON in December, brought forth by a virgin of all things, and ends just before Christmas on December 22-24, the time the SUN appears to be "in the grave" prior to being born again on the 25th by moving ever so slightly north again and heading towards spring. Jesus also spent his three days in the grave as we recall.

First of all why would I say that the Virgin brings forth the SUN and the Virgin bringing forth the literal SON of God later in print was not the original story? Because the older phenomenon is the sky story noticed long before it was made literal for the masses. On Christmas day, in particular 2000 years ago when during Jesus time, the Sign of Aries the Lamb was coming to an end, signified by the crucifixion of the Lamb in the Spring, the sky on Christmas morning showed an interesting sight. Just before sunrise, the SUN sits on the horizon about to be "born." At the zenith, the high point in the sky, at that moment, is the zodiacal constellation of Virgo, the Virgin who is MOST High, MOST Blessed, at that moment the SUN is born. Truly, and anciently, "and the virgin shall bring for the SUN." The prophecy says that "they shall call his (THE SON) name, Immanuel, which means "God with us." But the literal SON Jesus was never called Immanuel. However, the real SUN, as SUN of GOD is always Immanuel, always with us. The Bible even says of "God" that His power is from the rising of the sun until the going down there of." No one thinks this through. God's power is only good during the day is what this is saying. God's power ends at sundown according to this scripture. Evidently this SUN GOD has not power after sunset, which of course is the real SUN and not the literalised GOD or SON of GOD. Malachi tells us that the Messiah, but calling him the SUN, "shall arise with healing in his wings." The wings of the sun are the rays that appear to jet out due to the way humans see the sun when they try to look at it. One of the great symbols of Egypt is the sun disc with great bird wings coming out left and right. It's an old symbol of how the sun looks to humans.

Let's move on a bit past the birth of the SUN/Son on Christmas morning. The Gospels say that Jesus was "about 30 years old" when he began his ministry. The SUN/SON was born in December in the sign of Capricorn back then which is the Goat, and may account for some of the Nativity scene animals that were later made literally true in the story. Each House of the Zodiac takes up approximately 30 degrees of the sky (30x12=360). So the SUN also is about 30 when it enters the next sign of the Zodiac in January, which just happens to be the same PERSON Jesus the SON visited when he began his ministry! This would be Aquarius, the Waterman for the SUN but John the Baptizer for Jesus the SON. Same story. One in the sky, one made literal on earth. Same Story! Both SUN and SON are baptized by the Waterman during this month and both increase, that is keep moving towards Spring for the SUN or into his ministry for the SON. Aquarius and John, the Watermen on the other hand, must decrease and while one sets, the other is decapitated. It is no coincidence that when Aquarius appears to rise again six months later at dawn instead of sink at sunset, the head comes up first opposite Leo the Lion, sign of Herod who had him murdered literally. Aquarius, in the morning sunrise looks beheaded by Leo who is going down. Could this be why later in Jesus ministry Herod thinks that John the Baptist is coming back from the dead or had risen, because Aquarius is rising again after going down six months earlier? Is this a heavenly astro-theological tale made literally true?

Also, at sunrise and prior to Christmas day, the three stars in the belt of Orion the Hunter rose vertically and followed the sun across the sky all day, only to loose it in sunset. Every winter morning this scene would progress with the three "Magi" rising higher and earlier each day chasing the SUN/SON. When the story was literalized, it lost it's common sense. In the literal story we find the Magi saying, "We have seen his star in the east ...." They then proceed to follow it West with it ending up turning south and hovering right over the place where Jesus was. It would be a dumb thing to see a star looking east, watch it go over head in time and then turn west to follow it to Jerusalem. You'd play this game ever night for awhile. First head east, then look up, then turn and head west. I doubt this was the plan of the Magi who could not have been that stupid. However, when not taken literally we have the three stars, neatly aligned in Orion,s Belt rising like hikers in the east and heading west following the SUN or SON that has to be in the West to find. Great astro-theology but a bit funky when made literally true. It might explain why Herod could not see the same Star and had to ask for the Magi to find Jesus for him. It was taking place in the sky, not the palace. A good Gnostic would say "of course, this is where the story comes from."

Well shortly after Aquarius and John slip off the scene and Jesus goes on his way, he goes immediately into the wilderness to be tempted not to be all he can be by Satan. This would be the SUN, rising from Winter and heading to Spring and then being the Most High at the Summer Solstice, but still weak as it is early in the game. Jesus might still be too young, too weak to continue, so Satan, i.e. Darkness tempts him to be not be Jesus the SON or SUN. The darkness of Winter does not want to go and wants to prevent the SUN/SON from en-lightening the world, or as we might say, Satan does not wish Jesus the SON to take away the sins (darkness) of the world. Darkness in the human psyche is the world of evil and fear...the world of Satan. Jesus as the SON, just like the SUN might just overcome the darkness of winter and Satan if he can't be dissuaded at this weak time of his cycle.

But alas, you can't stop the seasons, so Jesus and the SUN go to Spring and Easter, which is the time when the SUN has the same strength as the dark, when day and night are Equi-nox or Equal Nights. It's Easter because the SUN rises due east and gives SON worshippers a direction in which to pray on Easter morning. Satan is well on the way to being defeated with the SUN/SON being crucified literally in Aries the Lamb, (April-Easter) which Jesus was also called and the SUN in Aries the Lamb as sign of the Zodiac. For the SUN the crucifixion takes place where the Celestial Equator crosses the Ecliptic and the Sun sits right on the intersection of it at Easter, and for Jesus it happens, same time in Jerusalem, literally.

It is not coincidence that the Age of Aries the Lamb, which ended with the SUN moving into PICES due to the progression of the equinox every 2190 years or so, around the time of Jesus coincides with the death of the Lamb of God, the Son, Jesus. It is a symbol. "Behold, I am with you, even unto the end of the age," said Jesus. This was not the end of the world as some think, but the Lamb Jesus would be with them until the end of the astrological age of Aries and then Pices the Fish would begin. It is also no coincidence that the symbol for the SON/SUN's Church is the fish, nor that in the age of Pices Christians were to be "fishers of men." The fishing motif in the Gospels is all about the age of Aries ending around the time of Jesus and the Age of Pices, the Fishes, beginning. It is no coincidence that right after Jesus overcame Satan, he went to Galilee, which means "circuit" as in circuit of the SON, or SUN depending on which localtion you are seeing the story in, he meets TWO FISHERMEN, Peter and Andrew and makes them Disciples. Jesus making his circuit all around Galilee, which means "circuit," with his 12 disciples surround him, is no different tha the SUN making it's circuit (Galilee) surrounded by it's 12 zodiacal disciples. The Sign of Pices is that of two fish. It is not coincidence that in the feeding of the multitudes, there were TWO Fish and five loaves sybolizing the five known planets of the time, Mars, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn.

Well there is much more. When Jesus as SON stood on the mount of transfiguration in the summer of his one year ministry, his face shone like the SUN at noon. This is because this earthly event is the literal fact in the cosmos that in June, the summer Solstice finds the SUN at its highest, "on a high mountain" being the MOST HIGH for the year and brilliant light. Jesus, standing on that "high mountain" in summer, face shining like the sun was doing what the SUN was doing as well as MOST HIGH right over his head. This is not coincidence either. From June, it is all down hill for the SUN and for Jesus the SON. Cancer the crab, which moves backwards and is for July and August symbolizes that the SON and SUN were going backwards now to their fate. Jesus is betrayed in the Fall by Judas, that scorpion, just as the SUN is stung and betrayed by Scorpio in its dive to oblivion in December. The Archer then takes over as Sagittarius, just as the mob does and both SUN and SON are pierced. They die in late December appearing to be gone and as the SUN lies for three days in the southern hemisphere, considered the grave and appears to neither go further south, nor come back north, so Jesus lies three days as the SON of GOD in the grave. This is December 22-24, the Winter Solstice, But it's all good. One December 25th the SUN and SON are born and brought forth by the Virgin Mary or the Virgin Virgo overhead and the cycle starts again.

Pretty cool huh? Ever hear that in Church? You won't. But realize, the SUN that rises and sets everyday around the planet, while holding little attention of modern busy men and women today, was THE source of all religion on the planet. Because the greatest fear men have and have had in history is fear of the dark. Dark was evil and so became "The Evil" or "De-evil or Devil. Just as the SUN of GOD overcomes the darkness as it makes it's one year rise and fall from birth to death, so Jesus as the literized SON of GOd, overcomes the Devil and delivers us from darkness too. The story that is litrally true happens in the cosmos, over your head every minute of every day, month and year. The more suspect one, made literally true, is what you hear in Sunday school....Hey! SUN DAY School!!!!!!!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Counting-Down-to-Christmas-and-the-Birth-of-the-SUN---Oops-I-mean-SON&id=311566
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 01:43 pm
Rex! How come you didn't warn us?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 01:56 pm
neologist
Quote:
I submit there also exists an absolute.

"The Absolute" is a key selling point for religion. The problem is of course that each religion claims that their version is "Absolute Truth" !

baddog1
Quote:
(a) What do you mean? How could making the choice to commit adultery not be deliberate?

(b) Do you feel there are cases where adultery did not cause harm or suffering to someone along the line?


(a) "Adultery" can occur in conditions of psychological depression, perhaps as a result of marital tensions. No person can predict how situations and personalities can change over the years. Adultery can be as much a solution as a problem. Because the word is linked with "commit" it carries a prescriptive and emotive connotation irrespective of the reality of the human condition.

(b) Of course some "adultery" can be innocuous. It was practically institutionalized in certain parts of European society. In Biblical times and present day enclaves of Islam it is even "legitimized" by multiple wives.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 02:07 pm
neologist wrote:
I submit there also exists an absolute.


Can you provide an example.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 02:25 pm
neologist wrote:
Rex! How come you didn't warn us?


About what Neo? Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 02:35 pm
Neo are you referring to the 1 year ministry thing with Jesus?

I warned everyone about 6 or 7 years ago on Abuzz... Smile

I may have also mentioned it here on A2K more than once.

I just did not see all of the parallels that this article brings literally to light.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 02:44 pm
Neo, the first clue I learned toward a harmony of the Gospels was that Jesus Christ was a "lamb of the first year."

Had his ministry been over a year he would have been classified as not a lamb but a sheep or goat...

Ex 12:5
Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 03:40 pm
How does forgiving and forgetting work in the face of "evil"?
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 04:55 pm
Is just walking up to someone and hitting them square in the face for no reason good?

Is just taking something that does not belong to you good?

If something is not good then it is evil.
What is Good can not be evil and what is evil can not be good under any good defination.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 04:59 pm
Scott777ab wrote:
Is just walking up to someone and hitting them square in the face for no reason good?

Is just taking something that does not belong to you good?

If something is not good then it is evil.
What is Good can not be evil and what is evil can not be good under any good defination.


Exclamation Sounds like a total eclipse to me... Smile
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:01 pm
RexRed wrote:
Scott777ab wrote:
Is just walking up to someone and hitting them square in the face for no reason good?

Is just taking something that does not belong to you good?

If something is not good then it is evil.
What is Good can not be evil and what is evil can not be good under any good defination.


Exclamation Sounds like a total eclipse to me... Smile


What do you mean by the sir?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:04 pm
I'd love to hear a good "defination" of good ! Laughing
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:05 pm
Scott777ab wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Scott777ab wrote:
Is just walking up to someone and hitting them square in the face for no reason good?

Is just taking something that does not belong to you good?

If something is not good then it is evil.
What is Good can not be evil and what is evil can not be good under any good defination.


Exclamation Sounds like a total eclipse to me... Smile


What do you mean by the sir?


Who are we inside?

Are our insides (spirit) the same as our outsides (flesh)?

Has the outside eclipsed the inside?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:06 pm
fresco wrote:
I'd love to hear a good "defination" of good ! Laughing
Anything outside of the five senses realm... Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:12 pm
Ge 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food [taste], and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:30 pm
science versus theology...

Can what is "inside" (spirit) be measured by the five senses (science)?
0 Replies
 
 

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