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Innovator Devises Way Around Electoral College

 
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2007 09:18 am
Re: wj
joefromchicago wrote:
No, your vote wasn't given to the candidate for whom you didn't vote. Rather, your vote was given to the candidate who lost.


That is a perfect way to phrase it joe! I may have to steal that statement on occassion.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 09:42 am
Bypassing the Electoral College
Bypassing the Electoral College
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Monday, April 2, 2007; Page A15

"The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States. . . . "

That is not some reactionary piece of propaganda denying your right to choose the next president. It is one of the more memorable sentences from the Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore, the hard-to-forget 2000 case that put the current occupant in the White House.

And strictly speaking, the court was right. As the majority opinion went on to note, we have the right to use our ballots to pick members of the electoral college -- which in turn chooses the president -- because every state legislature has decided on "statewide election" as the way to get the job done. In theory, legislatures have the power to pick electors without even consulting the voters.

The American way of electing presidents is antiquated, impractical and dangerous. It is odd indeed that in 2000, a nation devoted to spreading democracy throughout the world gave power to a man who received 543,895 fewer votes than his opponent. Under our system, George W. Bush's disputed 537-vote margin in Florida was deemed more important than Al Gore's half-million-ballot advantage nationwide.

And please, dear Republican friends, don't shout "Get over it!" Think back to 2004, when Bush defeated John Kerry by 3 million votes nationally. If just 59,300 people in Ohio had voted for Kerry instead of Bush, Kerry would have won the electoral college and become president. You can write the scripts for the Fox News commentaries about Kerry stealing the White House.

It does not have to be this way. As someone who lives in Maryland, I am proud that my state may pioneer a process that could lead to popular election of the president. The state Senate passed a bill last Wednesday that would commit Maryland's 10 electors to voting for the winner of the nationwide popular vote. The bill is expected to pass in the House of Delegates this week, and Gov. Martin O'Malley has said he would sign it.

The law would not take effect unless states representing a 270-vote electoral college majority pass similar laws. The idea is to create a compact among states genuinely committed to popular rule.

Yes, this is an effort to circumvent the cumbersome process of amending the Constitution. That's the only practical way of moving toward a more democratic system. Because three-quarters of the states have to approve an amendment to the Constitution, only 13 sparsely populated states -- overrepresented in the electoral college -- could block popular election.

Remember, states get one electoral vote for each member of the House of Representatives plus both senators. No matter how small, every state has at least three electoral votes. The three electors from Wyoming, with an estimated 2006 population of 515,004, represent 171,668 people each. California, with a population of 36,457,549, gets 55 electors, each representing 662,865 people. A presidential vote cast in Wyoming thus has nearly four times the value of a vote in California.

The democratic solution is for legislatures to agree to use their electoral votes to support the winner nationally. Devised by John R. Koza, a consulting professor at Stanford University -- he also invented the scratch-off lottery ticket -- the idea has been advanced by the National Popular Vote campaign and, in Maryland, by state Sen. Jamie Raskin, a longtime champion of more democratic election and campaign finance laws. Comparable bills have been approved by one legislative chamber in Arkansas, Hawaii and Colorado.

Opponents of popular election invent scary scenarios to continue subjecting our 21st-century nation to a system invented in the far less democratic 18th century. Most frequently, they warn about having to conduct a nationwide recount in a close election.

But direct election of presidents works just fine in France and in Mexico, which managed to get through a divisive, terribly narrow presidential election last year. Are opponents of the popular vote saying our country is less competent at running elections than France or Mexico?

Here's hoping Maryland sets off a quiet revolution that brings our nation's electoral practice into line with our democratic rhetoric. Individual citizens should have the right to elect their president -- directly.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 01:33 pm
Re: Bypassing the Electoral College
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Opponents of popular election invent scary scenarios to continue subjecting our 21st-century nation to a system invented in the far less democratic 18th century. Most frequently, they warn about having to conduct a nationwide recount in a close election.

But direct election of presidents works just fine in France and in Mexico, which managed to get through a divisive, terribly narrow presidential election last year. Are opponents of the popular vote saying our country is less competent at running elections than France or Mexico?

Here's hoping Maryland sets off a quiet revolution that brings our nation's electoral practice into line with our democratic rhetoric. Individual citizens should have the right to elect their president -- directly.


No Mr. Dionne. What opponents of a national popular voite are saying is that Mexico, for example, has a 7 member elections tribunal that decides which votes count and whioch one's don't as well as having the power to decide on their own who has won or lost a race. Is Mr. Dionne saying there is a benefit to paring down the equivelent of our EC to 7 people?

And what is the status in Mexico after a 2 month recount process that only recounted 9% of all of the votes cast? The loser is still, 10 months later, claming there was election fraud and that he is the legitimate winner. How is this better than out 2000 election again?? Oh yeah, it isn't.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Apr, 2007 05:27 pm
It is also worth noting that France has six leftist parties, a Green Party, a Centrist party, three right-wing parties, two far right parties, two parties devoted to opposition to the European Union, and a "nature party,"--all of which are nationally based. I don't allege that there ought to be fifteen or more nationally based parties in the United States, or that there ought not to be. However, this is the fifth French Republic, and they knew going in (1958), when it was formed, that there would be several viable parties at the least, and that no one candidate, even of the most popular, most well-organized party, could expect to get 50% of the vote in the first round. The Constitution of the United States has never stipulated that the office of President be filled by an individual who has polled any specific percentage of the vote, simply that the incumbent have polled the most electoral votes. For those who are so enamored of the French system, i suggest they take some time to learn the history of the use of electors in the the two empires and the five republics of that nation.

Aunt Bee bemoans the electoral college as a relic of a "less democratic" past. This nation was never intended as a pure democracy, and is, in fact, a coalition of fifty independent states in which far more democratic institutions reside, which afford the people far more control over their daily lives than is the case in any nation of Europe, never mind Mexico. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the history of Mexico and the office of President in that politically tragic nation should be appalled at a comparison of our two systems. Fishin' has already pointed out just how "democratic" and "just" the Mexican electoral system is.

As i've already pointed out more than once, our constitution seeks to protect the people both from minority tyranny and majority tyranny. The constitution guarantees a republican form of government in each state, and at the level of counties and municipalities, Americans have far more democratic control of their lives than do the people of any other nation on earth. At the national level, the Senate and the Electoral College seek to protect the unique character of each state from the imposition of mere majority, and heedless, unfettered democracy. The urban masses of New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Washington are content to eat bread made from Kansas wheat and hamburgers from the beeves of Wyoming, but i am personally not such a fool as to believe that those same urban masses care deeply about the issues which motivate the people of Kansas and of Wyoming. Thank the founders that we have such an institution as the Electoral College to assure that mere mob democracy does not drown the populations of sparsely-populated states in the roar of the selfishness of urban centers.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2007 08:20 am
Re: Bypassing the Electoral College
E. J. Dionne Jr. wrote:
But direct election of presidents works just fine in France and in Mexico, which managed to get through a divisive, terribly narrow presidential election last year. Are opponents of the popular vote saying our country is less competent at running elections than France or Mexico?

Nobody is proposing that we adopt the French method of electing presidents, and such a system could not be adopted by an interstate compact anyway, so it is of dubious value as an analogy.

As fishin points out, I'm not sure that Dionne should use Mexico as an example that the US should try to emulate. Mexcio has the same sort of "first past the post" election system that proponents of the interstate compact favor. In the last election, Felipe Calderon won with only 35.89% of the popular vote, which was about .5% more than the total received by his main rival, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. Not only have the electoral results been contested, Lopez Obrador has still not conceded the race.

Imagine that the same results occurred in the US under a system where the majority, but not all, of the states have entered into an interstate "Koza compact." There would be no mechanism for a nationwide vote recount, because there is no such mechanism either needed or allowed under the electoral college system. The "Koza compact" states may agree to a recount, but suppose the grossest charges of vote fraud are in states that are not part of the compact. There's no way that the compact states could compel the non-compact states to hold a recount. And a partial nationwide recount would have dubious validity, thus throwing the election result into unresolvable doubt.

In sum, a nationwide popular vote system works best in races that aren't close, but then the electoral college system works just as well in those races. In close races, however, Koza's nationwide popular vote system seems to have as many problems as the system it is attempting to replace -- it just has different problems. I'm not sure that's an improvement.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2007 08:43 am
BBB
I keep reminding everyone that all I want to do is to eliminate the "winner-take-all" state laws. They are not part of the Electoral College Constitutional provision. They were enacted to attempt power retention by the political parties. They are what has corrupted the allocation of votes.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2007 09:00 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
I keep reminding everyone that all I want to do is to eliminate the "winner-take-all" state laws. They are not part of the Electoral College Constitutional provision. They were enacted to attempt power retention by the political parties. They are what has corrupted the allocation of votes.

BBB


However, . . .

Mr. Rick Lyman, in the opening article, wrote:
Dr. Koza's compact, if approved by enough legislatures, would commit a state's electors to vote for the candidate who wins the most national votes, even if the candidate loses in that state.


Koza's system is a "winner-take-all" system writ larger than the current system which obtains in most states. There is little reason for the small states, those with sparse populations, to sign on to such a "compact," as they would surrender what little influence they now possess in the Electoral College. If Koza's plan were simply to work to eliminate the "winner-take-all" rules in the several states, i would consider it a reasonable and worthy effort. But he is not proposing that. He proposes that (leaving aside the objection which Joe has advanced) states surrender their sovereign choice to a compact which would be far less democratic, in that it would cancel the will of the electorate in any state in which the candidate who had won that state had not won the popular vote nationwide. You have said that the Electoral College is an "undemocratic" relic of the 18th century, and now you say that you only want to eliminate the "winner-take-all" system in the several states. You get neither a more "democratic" outcome with the Koza system, because the expressed will of he electorate in any given state could be canceled by the compact, and the simple elimination of the winner-take-all system of the allocation of electoral votes is not what Koza calls for.

Electors cannot legally be bound--at least apparently, and the history of Presidential elections is what leads me to say this, as time and again electors have, individually, voted as they have seen fit, despite what anyone may allege the intent of the constitution to have been, and despite state legislation. I don't see any reason to change the current system, and certainly none to abandon it completely. It is the right of each state to determine if there will be a winner-take-all system in place in that state, and even then, there is not guarantee that electors will vote as the legislature intends that they shall.

I will point out once again, that in my lifetime, there has never been so much outcry against the Electoral College as there has been since the 2000 election. There has always been at least some call for a reform of the system, or the scrapping of the College altogether--but it is only since 2000 that i have known it to reach this level of vociferation--of public "noise."

It still sounds to me like a bad case of sour grapes.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2007 09:12 am
Setanta
Setanta wrote: I will point out once again, that in my lifetime, there has never been so much outcry against the Electoral College as there has been since the 2000 election. There has always been at least some call for a reform of the system, or the scrapping of the College altogether--but it is only since 2000 that i have known it to reach this level of vociferation--of public "noise."

It still sounds to me like a bad case of sour grapes.


Not for me. I've been railing against the "winner-take-all" state laws for over 30 years.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 09:03 am
Governor O'Malley signs Electoral College Bill Into Law
I'd prefer that voter's votes be assigned to the candidate they supported.---BBB

Governor O'Malley signs Electoral College Bill Into Law
By John Wagner
The Washington Post
Wednesday 11 April 2007

Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley signed into law yesterday a measure that would circumvent the Electoral College by awarding the state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who wins the most votes nationwide.

The bill, one of 105 signed by the Democratic governor the day after the General Assembly adjourned, makes Maryland the first in the nation to agree to let the national popular vote trump statewide preference. It would not take effect until states that cumulatively hold 270 electoral votes - the number needed to win a presidential election - agree to do the same.

Supporters of the Electoral College measure, including O'Malley, say deciding elections by popular vote would give candidates reason to campaign nationwide and not concentrate their efforts in "battleground" states, such as Ohio, that have dominated recent elections.

During debate, opponents argued that election by popular vote could just switch the target for candidates from closely divided states to large cities - a scenario that would not necessarily empower Maryland. And they suggested a national recount could be chaotic.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 09:21 am
Re: Setanta
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
I've been railing against the "winner-take-all" state laws for over 30 years.

BBB


I believe you, BBB. Thirty years ago I felt the same way about Bayh's proposal to get rid of the electoral college. Then, I started hearing scenarios involving fringe candidates and fringe parties taking advantage of a direct vote and the inevitable runoff. Didn't Madison warn about "factions" in the Federalist Papers?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 11:29 am
What we are going to see is candidates avoiding fly over country in favor of major population centers like LA,NY, Chicago and other dense population centers. The days of going to see a candidate in no where CO are going to be over because they won't care about 30,000 votes instead they will care about the several million votes for major cities.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:05 pm
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
I keep reminding everyone that all I want to do is to eliminate the "winner-take-all" state laws. They are not part of the Electoral College Constitutional provision. They were enacted to attempt power retention by the political parties. They are what has corrupted the allocation of votes.

The "winner-take-all" system of awarding a state's electoral votes did not come about through the machinations of political parties bent on amassing power -- although that may play a part in the continuation of that institution. Rather, it is a natural result of the way elections are held.

Despite what the ballot might say, a voter in a presidential election does not vote for a candidate. Instead, a voter casts a ballot for a slate of electors pledged to a candidate. Indeed, in the early years of the republic (after the passage of the twelfth amendment) the presidential candidates often wouldn't be listed on the ballots -- only the electors would be listed.

Nowadays, the candidates' names are printed on the ballot, but the vote still goes to the electors. Here, for instance, is what the Illinois Election Code says:
    Placing a cross within the square before the bracket enclosing the names of President and Vice-President shall not be deemed and taken as a direct vote for such candidates for President and Vice-President, or either of them, but shall only be deemed and taken to be a vote for the entire list or set of electors chosen by that political party or group so certified to the State Board of Elections as herein provided.

So it just makes sense that the slate of electors that receives the most votes in an election would be elected and the state's entire electoral vote would be cast for a single candidate. It's true, of course, that major parties might resist changing the current "winner-take-all" system that is in place in 48 states because of political considerations, but that doesn't mean that the system originated with those considerations in mind.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:11 pm
Joe
Joe, nice try. I know all that.

I object to the winner-take-all system and want my vote awarded to the candidate I chose.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:23 pm
How the Results Debunk Some Defenses of the Current System
FindLaw is the most respected legal source in the U.S. ---BBB
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/amar/20041112.html

The 2004 Presidential Election and the Electoral College:
How the Results Debunk Some Defenses of the Current System
By VIKRAM DAVID AMAR
Friday, Nov. 12, 2004

This week, analysts have been scrambling to understand what last Tuesday's Presidential election really teaches us. In this column, I'll argue that some of the election's lessons relate to constitutional law and structure - and, in particular, to the electoral college system we use for selecting Presidents.

Overall, the 2004 election serves as further proof that the country would gain much, and lose virtually nothing, by abandoning the electoral college system.

The Basic Critique of the Electoral College and the Relevance of the 2004 Election

In a previous column, I have explained why to my mind the electoral college model was flawed from the outset, and should be replaced with a truly national, one-person one-vote, direct election. I will quickly summarize this argument here.

In the late Eighteenth Century, the electoral college system reflected an unfortunate -- albeit perhaps necessary at the time - compromise. The compromise allowed Southern states, whose assent was needed to get the new Constitution off the ground, to count their slave populations (at the rate of 3/5) for purposes of representation in the House of Representatives -- and thus in the electoral college - even though slaves obviously were not allowed to vote. As a result, a slave state like Virginia had significantly more electoral college clout than a free state like Pennsylvania, even though Pennsylvania had more eligible voters.

Perversely enough, the more slaves that a state bought or bred, the more electors it would get. And if a Southern state were to free any of its slaves, who then immigrated North, the slave state would actually lose strength in the electoral college relative to its free state neighbors.

What was true for slaves was also true for women: A state had (and has) no incentive under the electoral college model to expand its franchise to anyone, for its voice in the college is determined simply by how many persons - voters or not - live in the state.

By contrast, a well-designed system of national direct election could (with federal safeguards in place to prevent fraud and abuse) actually create incentives for each state government to increase voter turnout within the state. Since a state would have a voice only through its voters, it might plausibly think: The more voters, the better.

Proponents of the current system often concede some of the electoral college's tainted origins, but nonetheless try to offer modern defenses to justify its continued existence. Last week's election shows, however, that many modern defenses of the electoral college are makeweight or at the very least overblown.

Column continues below ↓ Myth # 1: The Electoral College Is Needed Because It Helps Small States

Take, for starters, the idea that the electoral college is a good thing to preserve because it gives a boost to small (that is, low population) states. There is a sense in which small states get an exaggerated say in the electoral college; each state, regardless of size, gets two electoral college votes for its two U.S. Senators.

But even assuming that helping small states were a good thing, the electoral college, as it has evolved, does not in fact favor the less populous states on balance.

The reason for this is the winner-take-all system that (almost) all states use for allocating electors. This winner-take-all method gives mid-sized and large states an enhanced voice in the electoral college game. Under winner-take-all, the candidate who wins a plurality of popular votes in a state gets the state's entire electoral bounty. By holding this large prize out to the candidates, a mid-sized or big state - particularly one where the swing voters are in play - is able to create tremendous incentives for the candidates to visit and to make promises to that state in particular.

And, indeed, that is exactly what happened in 2004. The three key states on which the candidates lavished attention down the stretch were all large states whose swing voters were in play -- Florida, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Most analysts (rightly) predicted that the winner of two of three of these states would win the White House, regardless of who won a state like New Mexico. And the candidates took note of this analysis; witness the fact that President Bush visited Pennsylvania a record 44 times during his first term.

Winner-take-all is unlikely to go away anytime soon. Consider another, related 2004 lesson: Colorado voters soundly rejected a statewide initiative that would have split its nine electoral votes.

As Colorado voters probably realized, winner-take-all is preferable for any given state precisely because it gives that state more clout than the state would have if it split its electors (proportionally to the state's overall popular vote, or on a Congressional district-by-district basis). And as long as winner-take-all is the rule in the overwhelming majority of states, the claim that small states are specially favored by the electoral college system will remain a myth.

The truth is that with winner-take-all favoring bigger states, and the "two Senators per state" rule favoring small states, neither large nor small states are specially favored. And that means that even those who favor the small states having disproportionate power lack a reason to prefer the electoral college over a direct national election.


Myth # 2: Inversion -- in Which a National Popular Vote Winner Loses the Electoral College - Is Statistically Unlikely To Recur

Some people resist replacing the electoral college with a national direct election on the ground that almost all popular vote winners prevail in the electoral college anyway. The idea is: No harm, no foul. The electoral college and a direct election will virtually always yield the same result, so why bother to change the system?

There are several problems with this argument, however. First, even if it were true that the two methods would virtually always generate the same result, why should we tolerate any possibility of electoral "inversion" - an electoral winner losing the popular vote?

Second, and more fundamentally, it's not true that the two methods will virtually always lead to the same result. To the contrary, for a variety of demographic reasons, the possibility of inversion is quite real today, and may remain so for years if not decades.

Consider recent history. 2004's numbers show 2000's inverted outcome was not statistically anomalous. It's true that last week George Bush won both the electoral college vote, and the nationwide popular vote - which he took by 3.5 million votes (or so). But inversion was a real possibility.

Suppose the weather in Ohio had been better, or Kerry's campaign had been ever so slightly more effective there. Then Kerry might have picked up an extra 125,000+ votes in that state, edged out President Bush in the electoral college, and won the election. Yet he still would have been behind by over 3 million votes in the nationwide popular vote tally.

Myth # 3: The Electoral College Cannot be Scrapped Because Eliminating It Would Benefit One Party

This very possible inversion in favor of a Democrat in 2004 shows not only that inversion is no anomaly, but that there ought to be bipartisan support for getting rid of the electoral college. Just as the electoral college doesn't really help small states versus large states or vice versa, neither does it help the Republicans versus the Democrats or vice versa. The Republicans benefit from the small-state skew discussed above -- Republicans tend to do well these days among rural whites. But the electoral college also exaggerates the power of big states, via the winner-take-all rules analyzed earlier. And that tends to help Democrats, who win among urban minority voters.

On balance, these two opposing forces largely negate each other. Republicans win more states, but Democrats win more big states. The net effect is to disfavor neither side, but rather only democratic principle. So when inversion happens - and it has happened, and will happen in the future - it could randomly victimize either party. The snake that bit Democrats in 2000 could easily have turned around and bitten Republicans in 2004. (Or in 2000; recall that before the election, many pundits predicted that Gore would lose the popular vote and win the electoral college.)

The solution is to kill the snake: The President should be the popular vote winner, period.

Myth # 4 - A Direct National Election Would Lead to More Recounts and Voter Fraud

Some electoral college fans fear the specter of nationwide recounts if direct national election were adopted. The idea is that if all that mattered were the national vote total, then recounts in a number of places would often be necessary before Presidential election disputes could be resolved. Worse yet, because votes all across the country would be essentially interchangeable, the incentive to steal and manufacture votes anywhere and everywhere would go up tremendously.

But 2004 demonstrates how just the opposite can often be true. George Bush won the national popular vote by over three million votes, and yet 12 hours after the polls closed, John Kerry had not yet conceded because there was a possibility of a recount battle in Ohio.

The truth was that whatever shenanigans and/or improprieties might have existed in Ohio, no one was going to find a whopping three million uncounted Kerry votes lying around across the nation. Thus, if we'd had direct elections, Kerry would doubtless have conceded sooner, and the chance of litigation would have been greatly lessened.

It was because of the electoral college that Kerry supporters would not have needed to find millions of votes, but rather about 125,000 in Ohio, to cast the entire election's result into doubt. With that number comparatively small, a few corrupt Ohio officials favoring Kerry might have thrown the nation into chaos by fraudulently producing the required number of "overlooked" Kerry votes.

The lesson of the Ohio experience is this: A thin electoral college victory may occasion recounts even when there is a dominant national vote winner.

Myth # 5 - The Electoral College Reduces the Chance that the Victor Will Be a Candidate Popular in Some, But Not All, Regions of the Country

The final myth that our recent election debunks holds that the electoral college makes it unlikely that an election victor will enjoy popularity that is not national, but simply regional. 2004 was but one of a number of elections in our history that show that an electoral college winner can, indeed, have mainly regional appeal.

The red/blue map for 2004 shows that the red and blue states are hardly distributed randomly throughout the country's geography. Every red state is bordered by at least one other red state. Every blue state is neighbor to at least one other blue state. (The 2004 state bloc contiguity is even more pronounced than it was in 2000, where New Mexico was a blue island and New Hampshire was a red island.) Bush had regional appeal; so did Kerry. The electoral college system did nothing to curb the chance that a President would be elected whom some regions loved, and others disliked.

There's no doubt about it: The country's Presidential preferences definitely break down on regional lines. (And as striking as the red/blue state maps are, the red/blue county-by-county map is even more intriguing. It shows how people living near major bodies of cold water vote Democrat, and those who do not tend to vote Republican, a phenomenon discussed by John Tierney in the New York Times.)

2004's results confirm that a person with much, much stronger appeal in some parts than others can win the White House. Yet the 2004 map is hardly unique in American history. The maps of the elections of 1860, 1986 and 1924 all demonstrate nicely how the electoral college does not guarantee that the country will enjoy the benefit of having a President with strong voting support in all regions of the country. (The 1896 map is particularly interesting, showing an almost identical state-by-state breakdown as 2004, but with the Democrat and Republican states inverted; the parties' regional strengths have flipped almost completely over the course of a century!)

So contrary to myth, an electoral-college-picked President won't necessarily garner national - as opposed to regional -- support.

Indeed, a direct national election might tend to make the red states less red and the blue states less blue.

Because Kerry knew that he couldn't win over a plurality of voters in any southern state, he simply stopped trying to woo any southern voters. The same is true for President Bush in New York and California. The lopsided margins of victory in all those states was in part of function of one side giving up because winning over more voters in a state does not matter unless a candidate wins the state overall.

Granted, a direct national election might not result in a breakup of the Confederacy or West Coast voting blocs. But if campaigning - like the election - went truly national, the margins of victory in many states might be reduced. The result would be a President whose support is slightly more geographically balanced.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vikram David Amar is a professor of law at the University of California, Hastings College of Law in San Francisco. He is a 1988 graduate of the Yale Law School, and a former clerk to Justice Harry Blackmun. He is a co-author of the Cohen and Varat constitutional law casebook, and a co-author of several volumes of the Wright & Miller treatise on federal practice and procedure. Before teaching, Professor Amar spent a few years at the firm of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:34 pm
Re: Joe
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Joe, nice try. I know all that.

Nice try, BBB. Here's what you wrote:

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
They were enacted to attempt power retention by the political parties.

But clearly that's not true (or, at least, that's not true in the majority of cases). Laws giving all of a state's electoral votes to a single candidate weren't enacted to attempt power retention by the political parties. Rather, in the vast majority of cases, the political parties took advantage of the laws that were already enacted to solidify their hold on power.

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
I object to the winner-take-all system and want my vote awarded to the candidate I chose.

Then stop voting for losers.

There can be only one winner under any electoral system. If you vote for a loser under a nationwide popular vote system, your vote is just as wasted as it would be if you voted for the loser under the current electoral college system.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:40 pm
What respect is due to or given to Find Law-dot-com is irrelevant, Aunt Bee, in the face of the fact that you have pasted an opinion piece from the Find Law discussion board. It is very naughty of you to suggest that it is anything other than an opinion piece, or that it reflects the opinion of those who are responsible for the Find Law web site.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 12:49 pm
Setanta
Setanta wrote:
What respect is due to or given to Find Law-dot-com is irrelevant, Aunt Bee, in the face of the fact that you have pasted an opinion piece from the Find Law discussion board. It is very naughty of you to suggest that it is anything other than an opinion piece, or that it reflects the opinion of those who are responsible for the Find Law web site.


Not at all. FindLaw is the site attorneys consult when they want to read court decisions, including the supreme court, that they know will be accurate and factual instead of relying on legal journalist reporting.

FindLaw would not allow it's site to be used by a contributor unless the article was well-founded.

BBB
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 01:59 pm
Re: Setanta
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Setanta wrote:
What respect is due to or given to Find Law-dot-com is irrelevant, Aunt Bee, in the face of the fact that you have pasted an opinion piece from the Find Law discussion board. It is very naughty of you to suggest that it is anything other than an opinion piece, or that it reflects the opinion of those who are responsible for the Find Law web site.


Not at all. FindLaw is the site attorneys consult when they want to read court decisions, including the supreme court, that they know will be accurate and factual instead of relying on legal journalist reporting.

FindLaw would not allow it's site to be used by a contributor unless the article was well-founded.

BBB


It is also a site that people who aren't lawyers frequent and post rants. While Findlaw does have a reference section it also has OpEd stories just like the one you Cut & Pasted.

Commentaries are NOT reviewed by the site for accuracy and are NOT purported to be factual. They are OPINION pieces and quite often they are rebutted by other OpEd pieces.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 02:06 pm
Find Law site
Find Law site and content:

http://www.findlaw.com/

and

http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/

and commentary:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2007 02:14 pm
Yes -- now compare that with the URL of the article you copied and pasted. It's not reporting. It's a commentary. It's worthless as a reference for establishing facts.
0 Replies
 
 

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