Hate is a Four-Letter Family Value

i did answer you i wasnt mocking.......as to a humanist.......they have to believe all Christ taught ......and follow him.....as he said

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BM

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Hey, personally I don't care whether it's Christians, christians, True Christians, Zoroastrians, Sunnis, Shiites, or Tibetan monks acting in the name of whatever flavor god they follow. It seems to me that vastly more harm has been done to the tune of "God wills it!" than has ever been made good.

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Honestly, Kate, I'm not the least bit paranoid. I'm TRULY comfortable in my beliefs. It's fascinating that you use 'they' to refer to humanists when according to your definition of Christianity, anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus is a Christian. Why did you use the exclusionary 'they'?

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Following includes emulating

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JPB...generally a humanist is a student of human affairs.....that was what i was thinking....my fault.....if you mean a humanist as in one who cares for human welfare etc then i am that and should have said We.......

And Intrepid to follow is to emulate...yes christians are to be Christ-like... which has been my point from the beginning.....Christ didnt hate or torture or kill and as his disciples we are to follow him........

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No, Kate, that isn't what I meant by a humanist at all. By your definition of disciple, one needs to follow the teachings of Jesus. If one accepts and follows (emulates) the teachings of Jesus, is that person a Christian?

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jpb have you not read any of my posts honestly its frustrating to debate with people who wont really read the posts of the one they are debating........I have said from the beginning a christian is one who follows Christ and his teachings......

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Believe me, I've read your posts. They are what triggered this debate. I'm sure it's frustrating for you to carry on a debate with someone who challenges your position on being in a position of determining who is and who isn't a True Christian (sorry, neo), but you still haven't answered my question.

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jpb no you dont challenge my position .....lol...Christ was pretty clear himself when he said we have to follow him and love everyone and if we have hate in our hearts God wont forgive us and actually my posts didn't start this debate ..i was just responding to the posts already on this subject......and i have answered your question time and again.....\
JPB wrote

Quote:

If one accepts and follows (emulates) the teachings of Jesus, is that person a Christian?

my answer (one more time)
kate4christ wrote

Quote:

........I have said from the beginning a christian is one who follows Christ and his teachings......

thats pretty clear that yes one who accepts and follows the teachings of Christ is a christian...what do you not understand.........

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Can a soldier whose job it is to be prepared to kill be a Christian?

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If anyone says "yes", they get the "how about the 10 commandments and 'thou shalt not kill' ?"

If anyone says "no", they have to account for all the thousands of soldiers and the CIC, who claims christianity.

It's really a no-win.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

its hard to debate with one who wont even read my posts.....true christians dont hate and kill and torture etc.....bc that is contrary to Christ's teachings....anyone can call themselves a christian but that doesnt mean anything......

It goes to this statement from Kate, snood, which is the one that I've been trying to get her to explain.

According to our disciple Kate, true christians don't hate and kill and torture etc. As someone who believes that Jesus was a pacifist, I would like to hear from the disciple herself whether or not a soldier who is trained to kill and must be prepared to kill can be a true christian (lower case in honor of neo).

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Well, if "the disciple herself" can't explain to your satisfaction why christians serve in the military, she will just join the millions of people who struggle with questions like that daily - who serve in the military, and also try to believe in something.

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snood wrote:

If anyone says "yes", they get the "how about the 10 commandments and 'thou shalt not kill' ?"

If anyone says "no", they have to account for all the thousands of soldiers and the CIC, who claims christianity.

It's really a no-win.

Anyone who trots out the "ten commandments" is failing to make a distinction which is important in this topic. If you kill someone because you are christian, and your victim is not, then that is execrable behavior. If you kill someone because you are in a combat situation, and your motivation is self-preservation, and the preservation of your comrades, with the religion of the victim being no issue at all--that is acceptable adherence to the social contract which provides for, among other aspects of the security of society, armed forces.

Christians should only be condemned for killing in the name of their alleged god, without other justification. If they kill because they are in the armed forces, and are acting out their duties, with due regard for non-combattants, then i don't see any reason to condemn them.

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snood wrote:

Well, if "the disciple herself" can't explain to your satisfaction why christians serve in the military, she will just join the millions of people who struggle with questions like that daily - who serve in the military, and also try to believe in something.

The problem here snood, is that the millions of people who struggle with questions like that don't typically go around telling other people they aren't "true christians". And that is the crux of my question. Kate, as a disciple, has granted herself (or perhaps been granted) the right to define Truth. So, I would like to hear from someone who has the authority to determine who is and who is not a "true christian" whether or not a soldier can be a "true christian" or if all those christians in the military fall under her umbrella of "false christians".

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JPB wrote:

..... if I am a humanist and accept the teachings of Jesus and live by them, am I a Christian?

hi JPB,

When you convictions as a humanist collide with the teachings of Christ, which do you follow?

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Hey, real, you'd have to give me an example of when that's happened and I'll let you know how I handled it. You'd also have to remind me where I claimed to be a Christian. Not saying that it isn't possible, but my question to Kate was the hypothetical humanist.

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hi JPB,

I think I referred to you as a humanist, but you also put forward the hypothetical humanist who follows the teachings of Christ., so my question is regarding that hypothetical whether you or another.

OK, Jesus stated that He is the only way to God.

Quote:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you believe that Jesus is the only way to God? And that no one can come to God, except by Him?

Jesus taught that you must repent.

Quote:

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Quote:

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Have you repented of sin?

Jesus stated that you must be born again of the Spirit

Quote:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Have you been born again of the Spirit?

Jesus stated that you are to worship God, and worship Him alone.

Quote:

Then saith Jesus unto him, ..... it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Do you worship God?

Jesus taught that, from the beginning, God made man and woman.

Quote:

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Do you believe that God made man and woman in the beginning?

These are just a few examples of where the belief of a humanist may collide with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Only knowing that you label yourself a humanist, but not your actual set of beliefs, it is difficult to say for sure where else you belief may not coincide.

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JPB wrote:

Can a soldier whose job it is to be prepared to kill be a Christian?

Of course. In the Bible it is claimed God said thou shall not murder (kill). Then the God of the Bible proceeds to slaughter thousands of men, women and children, even infants.

How does one reconcile that, to say one thing and do another?

Apparently when God supposedly gave these commandments to "his people" they were meant for "his people" only, no one else. Hence, you do not murder within your tribe but it is legitimate to kill anyone outside of the tribe if your God tells you so.

Outside the tribe there are no humans. That's the crux to the whole thing, dehumanize your enemy and you can easily slaughter them without guilt. The Nazis looked upon Jews as non-human, as do the Arabs today. And the Jews view of Muslims is no different than that of the Nazi's view of Jews. As long as the attitude of dehumanization prevails then persecution and killing will naturally follow; follow without guilt.

So when a Christian soldier is killing an enemy he is, in essence, killing someone outside of his tribe. This would be especially true of Muslims, considering the differences in religion. Many conservative Christians already believe God is going to send Muslims to hell so why not speed up the process?

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Hate is a Four-Letter Family Value

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