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America: Melting Pot or tossed salad?

 
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 04:53 pm
New Mexico had the highest percentage of Hispanics (42%) followed by California (32%) and Texas (32%).
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 04:59 pm
fishin wrote:

I don't think many people have a problem with a "salad" concept as long as the cucumbers don't get up and decide to climb out of the salad and leave just as everyone else is sitting down to eat. Razz


It sounds to me like the author of this thread takes issue with the tossed salad way of life. I feel like the tossed salad is fine - I guess it's a semantics thing again..... that's the trouble with simplistic catch phrases.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 05:12 pm
Ah, and I see by reading up that others were having a hard time with Atavistic's use of language as well.
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 06:41 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:

California is over 50% Hispanic and growing


Stop making stuff up.

The fact you make sensationalistic claims that are so easy to confirm-- while you are seated at a computer on the Internet is not only lazy, it is dumb. How long do you think it took me to do the Google search to check this (it wouldn't have taken you very long either).

My mistake. I meant Los Angeles. It is 49% Hispanic and growing. By 2050, they will be the majority in all the border states. There are 12 million illegal immigrants in this country as we speak, 1 million of them are felons.
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Sep, 2006 06:45 pm
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 08:10 am
This post contradicts what you say (by the way, your user name is very appropriate for this discussion).

You say you are in favor of assimilation. Then you say you want police to target immigrants. There is a big disconnect there.

The prohibitions against local police asking about immigration status are supported by many police organizations. Police department are saying clearly that they don't want to be asked to take responsibility for immigration enforcement.

The primary responsibility of police is to meet the needs of their community. Their job requires trust and the ability to work with people. It is not right for conservatives to impose their political views about a controversial federal issues.

Police will tell you that the immigration rants of conservatives makes their job more difficult and their communities less safe.

What's wrong with letting the American citizens in local communities decide on what's best for their communities. These things are decided by voters in the community and if you believe in Democracy, you shouldn't complain about the outcome.

Incidently, I assume the 49% of "Hispanics" you say that are in Los Angeles includes American citizens-- in fact I would bet the majority of them are citizens.

Are you saying that it is a bad thing for Americans to live in Los Angeles?
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 09:06 am
ebrown_p wrote:
This post contradicts what you say (by the way, your user name is very appropriate for this discussion).

I didn't pick that name because it sounds cool.

Quote:
You say you are in favor of assimilation. Then you say you want police to target immigrants. There is a big disconnect there.

The prohibitions against local police asking about immigration status are supported by many police organizations. Police department are saying clearly that they don't want to be asked to take responsibility for immigration enforcement.

The primary responsibility of police is to meet the needs of their community. Their job requires trust and the ability to work with people. It is not right for conservatives to impose their political views about a controversial federal issues.

Police will tell you that the immigration rants of conservatives makes their job more difficult and their communities less safe.

What's wrong with letting the American citizens in local communities decide on what's best for their communities. These things are decided by voters in the community and if you believe in Democracy, you shouldn't complain about the outcome.

This is pure nonsense. This has nothing to do with consevative politics, this has to do with criminals. Illegal immigrants are, by definition, criminals. I don't want police to target legal immigrants, but if someone is pulled over and detained, their immigration status is completely relevant. It is absurd that an officer isn't allowed to question the person if they are here legally. Maybe here in the Northeast, some cops are ok with this, but in the southwest, this is a huge problem. Known illegal aliens, some of them gang members, roam the streets and the cops can't touch them. I would question the sanity of anyone who doesn't see a problem with that.

Quote:
Incidently, I assume the 49% of "Hispanics" you say that are in Los Angeles includes American citizens-- in fact I would bet the majority of them are citizens.

That is probably only the citizens, that doesn't include the unknown thousands of illegals that reside there. My point is that once they become the majority in these places, the dynamics will forever be changed. There will be little stopping them from Mexicanizing the region completely. In the past people assimilated because they basically had no choice if they wanted to survive. A Mexican today coming to California can live comfortably without even learning English. Do a little research on la raza or Mecha. There is already a growing movement to reclaim the American southwest for Mexico. If this prospect is ok with you, I can respect that, but you're crazy if you think this can't happen. It is my view that a nation as big as ours has managed to stay together only because there is a dominant culture, that being the anglo-saxon culture. Sure there are elements of other cultures scattered throughout, but the dominant culture maintains the unity. Once other cultures, i.e. the mexicans, become a significant force in their own right, you might very well see the Balkanization of America. Democracy is not enough.
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 09:09 am
No I am not a democratic fundamentalist. I don't believe that democracy is always the answer. Many forget how many of our founders were suspicious and even hostile towards democracy. America was America before democracy and it can be so without it.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 09:33 am
Atavastic,

The main point you claim to be making is Assimilation. Assimilation usually means that don't pay attention to where someone comes from and that you treat everyone as an American.

The points you are making seem to go against the entire premise of what you claim is you argument.

Let's take La Raza which you brought up. I am very familiar with (and fond of) them. This is an Organization that was founded by Americans for Americans. It is currently led and supported by Americans.

Why did you bring up La Raza in your last post? Presumably you singled them out because the Americans who run and maintain this organization are predominantly Hispanic?

As I am familiar with the organization-- I know your claim about their goals is based on your prejudice rather than any reality.

Forming a political organization to advocate for the your beliefs and the needs of your communities is a very American thing to do. It is certainly part of our "values, mores and history" and is on the level of the NAACP or the Christian Coalition.

If you believe in Assimilation, than a political organization run by Amercans should be seen as a good thing. It is a way to become part of the political process.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 09:39 am
Seeing as you claim to support Assimilation... another comment you made strikes me as odd.

You claimed that with the rising number of Hispanics "Whites and blacks are like strangers in their own home".

Since you claim to believe in Assimilation, the fact that you are playing Whites and Blacks and Hispanics against each other is quite odd.

Assimilation would involve Whites and Black accepting Hispanics into their home-- that is taking them in to become Americans (instead of Whites Blacks and Hispanics).

Actually the fact you separated Whites and Blacks in this context (instead of calling them Americans) strikes me as a bit odd.

Perhaps what you meant to say is "California is over 50% American and growing. Americans and Americans are like strangers in their own home."

That would be a statement that supported assimilation.
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 11:04 am
ebrown_p wrote:
Atavastic,

The main point you claim to be making is Assimilation. Assimilation usually means that don't pay attention to where someone comes from and that you treat everyone as an American.

The points you are making seem to go against the entire premise of what you claim is you argument.

Let's take La Raza which you brought up. I am very familiar with (and fond of) them. This is an Organization that was founded by Americans for Americans. It is currently led and supported by Americans.

Why did you bring up La Raza in your last post? Presumably you singled them out because the Americans who run and maintain this organization are predominantly Hispanic?

As I am familiar with the organization-- I know your claim about their goals is based on your prejudice rather than any reality.

Forming a political organization to advocate for the your beliefs and the needs of your communities is a very American thing to do. It is certainly part of our "values, mores and history" and is on the level of the NAACP or the Christian Coalition.

If you believe in Assimilation, than a political organization run by Amercans should be seen as a good thing. It is a way to become part of the political process.


Play all the word games you want, you have just shown your true colors. The fact that you are "fond of" The Race is all I need to know about you. These are not Americans as far as I am concerned. 'Everything for the race, nothing above the race.....' Hello Mussolinni is that you? Yes I'm sure you would have me believe they are simply a righteous civil rights group, but I wasn't born yesterday. I might be crazy but I'm not stupid. You call what these lowlifes are doing assimilation??? As far as my comment on blacks and whites feeling like strangers, that is because the Mexicans are not assimilating. There's too many of them and they're not assimilating. The border is broken and people like you think it's so nice that all these poor people get to come to America. Meanwhile, the Americans who live in these places are seeing their country transformed before their eyes. There neighbors don't speak english, they see their taxes raised to support welfare for people who don't even belong here, their neighborhoods have become infested with gangs of illegal immigrants that the cops can't even question. Mark my words, there will not be a happy ending to this story.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 11:08 am
Quote:
These are not Americans as far as I am concerned.


Who are you to decide who is an American or not? It is ironic that this has come down to who should we consider American-- and that the person who supports "assimilation" wants to exclude people from this category.

But with La Raza, we are talking about American citizens. Legally they are Americans. They have all the rights of Americans. They are protected by the same Constitution that you are.

... and best of all they get to vote!
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Atavistic
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Sep, 2006 12:30 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
Quote:
These are not Americans as far as I am concerned.


Who are you to decide who is an American or not? It is ironic that this has come down to who should we consider American-- and that the person who supports "assimilation" wants to exclude people from this category.

But with La Raza, we are talking about American citizens. Legally they are Americans. They have all the rights of Americans. They are protected by the same Constitution that you are.

... and best of all they get to vote!


Are you implying that no member of this racist organization are illegals?? I don't believe that for a second. Even if the leaders are citizens, they support illegal immigration and I therefore consider them enemies of the United States. I saw these idiots marching in the streets, comparing themselves to the blacks of the civil rights era. It's a joke. Martin Luther King and his people were citizens of this country. These idiots are demanding rights for illegal immigrants. There is no comparison.
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heather257
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2007 03:57 pm
accetance of other cultures
ok if you have a problem accepting other cultures, than who is your favorite baseball player or basketball player? hope it is not a rod or yao ming. guess what their not american and well we sure do accept them
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OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 02:41 am
i think we should accept our past culture, but they are outdated for a reason.

think about in a few decades we might all be a similar color anyways, i think a question to ask might be, if we eventually can attain a even mixture of races would our genetic structure be strengthened or weakened? america provides an excellent platform for different races to breed.

i could care less about the color but the genetics of races intrigue me.
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