Biological Sciences - Career Question

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This is directed at those sages out their who work in the biological (or other) sciences. I work with a bunch of academics, so I'm especially interested in the points of view of those of you who went into industry. I know there are a few of you...

We've got a decision to make right now about where to move next year, and much (though not all) of these lie in my choosing between two schools at which to complete a BS in biology. One is very good, the other, well, not so good. The good one is somewhere -- namely Madison, WI -- the gf and I prefer not to go, and school there will cost both of us a great deal of money that we really don't have.

The other school (CSU - Sacramento), while decent in its own right, has no national recognition and certainly doesn't have the resources or breadth of program that Wisconsin does, but moving there would cost us both a lot less money and put us both in the region where we'd eventually like to settle.

So, the question: in your folk's opinion, how valuable is the degree from the (much) more prestigious institution? Will the education at the undergraduate level really be that different in the two institutions? Does supposed strength-of-program pull a great deal of weight in the private sector, or do other considerations (i.e., talent, ability, demonstrated professionalism) ultimately win out?

Any input welcome...

(Man, I trash other people's threads with reams of bad humor, and then put something serious up myself. Grrrrr....)

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"Ream"! You said "ream"!

Um.

I am not a scientist myself, but I know a lot of scientists. And unfortunately, the place you got your degree is a Big Deal, yes. It depends a great deal on a zillion different factors, though, not least of which is the relative shortage or glut of people in your field when you are looking for a job. If it is a glut, it takes on a lot of importance. If there is a shortage, it doesn't matter, if you can do the job.

Never underestimate the politics of it -- schmoozing is big, even though nobody wants to admit it.

Congrats on getting into the UW. You know what I think about that. Is there any chance of visiting now, just to take a look around? You went at the absolute worst time of year, and now is one of the absolute best times of the year. I know that the cold winters are a factor, in and of themselves, though.

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Can I put my in, even though I have never been in the field of biology? I don't know what your long term career goals are, or how far you plan to go beyond the bachelor's level.

If I were making the decision, I would choose the more prestigious school. I think that, everything else being equal, the guy from the superior school has a better shot both in the job market, and in graduate school. Hey, once you have that piece of paper, you could always move to California, if that is where you want to be. I think that you need to think in the long term, at this stage of your life! Good Luck!

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U of W has obvious advantages.

All the same, consider, the California school is located where you want to settle. You can start networking well before you finish your degree, exploring the area, applying for internships, making connections....

There is also something to be said for emerging with a Debt Free Degree--or at least a Degree with Dainty Debt.

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patiodog, Why don't you check with CSU Sacramento to find out the following: 1) how their curriculum compares with other schools of biology, 2) what their job success rates are, and 3) if they have produced any national or world reknowned biologist? It's not so much which school you graduate from that's important, but what you are able to do with the education you get. As a very bad example, some folks who graduated from MIT are doing no better or worse than somebody that graduated from CSU Sacramento. c.i.

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Thanks all. I'll respond individually...

sozobe wrote:

Never underestimate the politics of it -- schmoozing is big, even though nobody wants to admit it.

I am exceedingly aware of this, and it's something I, um, struggle a bit with. (On the other hand, I know a lot of very prestigious academic types, and I've got loads more room presence than a lot of them, so maybe it's not such a bad thing.) Private sector, of course, is probably given to more secure egos, better social skills, and more adept hygiene. Certainly the UW is plugged into a bigger network.

Phoenix wrote:

If I were making the decision, I would choose the more prestigious school. I think that, everything else being equal, the guy from the superior school has a better shot both in the job market, and in graduate school.

Thanks. This is sort of what I intellectually already know, it's just that there are so many mitigating factors, such as a lot of pre-existing debt which will probably cut into how much we can grab in loans, as well as some family and health concerns. I'm trying to get as much input as possible about the importance of this, and figured -- why not throw a line to a waiting international audience?

Quote:

It's not so much which school you graduate from that's important, but what you are able to do with the education you get.

This is something else I'm wrestling with; ostensibly, I'm pursuing the degree as a means of satisfying requirements for veterinary school. It's my second bachelors, so I'm not going to be there very long -- which would point to getting the better piece of paper. But being in Calif, even with a less prestigious degree, puts me in a position to apply to a school that is going to be better able to evaluate my first undergraduate degree (from which I have no grade point average, which some schools don't much appreciate).

Anyway, thanks all who've responded so far...

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What veterinary school you looking at? Maybe there's a play in that direction?

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Try Davis. c.i.

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Go to the better school. It'll be on your resume forever, whereas you might decide to leave California once you've moved there (or job circumstances might force same).

Look for financial aid packages, jobs and loans; the financial part of going to the better school might not be so bad.

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CI - Davis would be the vet school; they don't take 2nd degree people into their sciences programs (the only UC that does is Riverside).

No, the financial aid part of either school is awful. As a 2nd bachelor's student, I'm technically not eligible for any financial aid at all, though I can file an appeal and maybe pull some federal loans. The bitch of it is, I didn't take out any student loans the first time around, and now I may not be allowed to take any out when I really need them. C'est la vie, non?

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Oui. But that sucks. Evil or Very Mad

The good news is, interest rates are AMAZING. So if you can get any loan at all, you're in pretty good shape.

Check this out:

http://www.uwcu.org/products/loans/personal.asp

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Oh wait, that loan isn't so amazing. OK, but not amazing. (9.9% APR.)

Really though, if financial aid is the only concern, I really think that's surmountable. The appeal you mentioned, plus there are a zillion weirdo grants out there and I'm sure you could swing something with your gift of gab.

Just for example:

http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/Organization/Research/Funding/nestle.pdf

2-min Google search. You've got options, I tells ya.

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http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/dec02/021201o.asp

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Very nice. Thankee. That were already the plan, but I'd love to have one of those federal loans you don't have to begin paying as long as you're a full time student (i.e., subsidized). Damn it, should've remained solvent instead of travelling and moving all over the place...

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http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/sep00/s091500x.asp

...etc.

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Yeah, Federal loans are good. Here's my loan institution, call 'em up and see what they say:

https://www.mygreatlakes.com/sharedcontent/index.html?SMSESSION=NO

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The undergrad school is relatively unimportant. many grad"ed from small L.A. colleges and went on to great grad schools. Top Vet schools include Tufts, u of Penn, Cornell Texas A$M, Purdue, but Tufts and penn (probably in that order) are about the capo de tops.
PS, large or small animals interest you?

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farmerman -- thanks for the post; you were one of those I know is in (or at least near) the field whose input I was esp. hoping to get.

Small animals, but my main concern isn't the vet school stuff; I've been sussing that out for about a year and a half now. Davis is really my first choice; it was the top-ranked school before it was put on limited accreditation because of aging facilities, and I got my first degree in the UC system, which should help me there.

My worry is what happens if I don't get into vet school -- or decide that I want to go in another direction (enzymes fascinate me at the moment, but my interests change a lot, and I only have the most fleeting acquaintance with the field as of yet). I've suspected that finding the right graduate program was more important than the school on the diploma, but there really is a very large prestige (and tuition) gap between the schools I'm looking at.

btw, I think Cornell's a tiny cut above Tufts and Penn at the moment, but of course that all depends on what a person wants to do...

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Good point about undergrad vs. grad school. The grad school is more important in my experience, too.

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Given the huge glut of biology grads on the market here for the past 20+ years, I'd definitely go for the better school. You might be able to get into some other programs because of the school you went to, not the degree. Odd, but true in some cases, and biology seems to be one of them. If it's on your resume that you went to a school with a more rigorous program, you've got something in addition to the degree itself.

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Biological Sciences - Career Question

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