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Vivien, I see your point. You are speaking of process perhaps like upper case P; mine is lower case: collaboration, serendipitiy, controlled or accepted accident are aspects of a generally guided process. I like the distinction made by Nietzsche between the Dionysian and Apollonian PHASES of a painting. I generally start with impulse, sometimes excitement, etc. a generally anal expressive attitude sometimes assisted by Bacchus (one of Dionysius' forms). Then, I come back--sometimes a day later--with a more rational "apollonian attitude. Trying to "engineer" or reshape what I have done earlier for greater communicative or aesthetic effect. If there is concern with principles of design or color theory in the earlier phase, it's purely unconscious. By the way the two phases, like the hemispheres of the brain, are not mutually exclusive; they probably often work together.
I have nothing on the web, but let me see if I can send something to you as an attachment. Got to learn how first.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU JUST SAID JL, MY SON IS HERE WITH ME AN WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU DIDNT SAY SOMETHIN DIRTY>
jl - yes that's it exactly.
Yes please I'd love to see some of your work.
and farmerman - behave!
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Vivien, thanks, it's good to be understood. I'll start working on the attachment procedure.
Farmer, really, you should get a filter for your PC. I don't want to have to guard what I say because your son has access to my stuff.
jlN; odd coming from me, but your taking it all far to seriously!
mm, I think jl is kidding re filter. Agree with jl on process, I have a similar mode if not similar painting techniques. Know what Vivien is speaking about re Process Art, that is what they called it in LA too, drip, drip, or crack crack.
Or maybe it was Progress painting...I remember a show at LA Institute of Contemporary Art, called Clay Works in Progress, and the thing about the key piece, a large circle of dried clayey mud, was that the cracking changed with time.
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BoGoWo, of course I was kidding. Have I EVER said anything serious to Farmerman? Well, sometimes. But he's NEVER serious with me.
Aw hell, and I was gonna start taking notes.
judging from the "head"; watching you take notes, could be a highly entertaining "process"!
And jlN;
you say "I am usually drawn, as the abstract process proceeds, to representational "suggestions" "
I feel all artwork is abstract; the elements in it, be they recognizable objects, or amorphous shadings, are merely the subject medium chosen; the "art" in any work is its abstraction.
yes all art is abstract to a degree - merely representing a 3 dimensional object in 2 dimensions and from a single viewpoint is abstracting it.
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I am finding that the process can be "stunted" if you do not stop, and occasionally force yourself to do a very spontaneous work. I have been painting often for a couple of years after a ten-year hiatus, with only very little work being created. So, I wanted to re-learn some techniques and work on underlying structure, drawing, representation. So my work has become more figurative, and less abstract, and the dilemma now becomes --- I have many works sitting around with the portions that need work, need completion, "undone" and the mood that existed when they were started is gone............. or the particular area is just giving me so much trouble........I avoid it, and start anew. I dont remember who posted this, but she or he stated they used music to recreate that mood or feeling in time, and that is something I must try.
The most free, expressive and satisfying work recently that I have done, adn which seems to be up the the quality of art of years gone by....... I started with ripped canvas, laid it in latex paint, then gessoed it and the edges of hte canvas left strings, which I gessoed on also. I looked at it for a while, when my sun happened by adn I asked him what he saw in the random strings and canvas shapes. "a muscled arm" , he said, right there, which eventually developed into Zeus, stealing the sun from the sky, surrounded with other catastrophic natural events. The painting completed itself with ease and it was very different from my other recent work.
The point for me, is I have to look outside myself, and magazines, photos just dont do it. Those images are some other artist's way to capture an art image, and although I paint from photos, something is always missing....... I understand the Dyonisius and Appolonia analogy,,,,,,,,,, the broad expressive push which starts the painting, compelling you to get the idea or feeling down, then fine tuning it as it develops. Just so whatever was there does not slip away...............
My most recent instructor says,,, about mixing the paint..........which I will post as a new topic.
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KINCWHITE I resonate with everything you say. I guess all artists do. Right now I am well into the Apollonian phase of my present work and lo and behold human figures have emerged, and one is clearly the Virgin Mary with something like a baby in her arms. I'm just following it for its aesthetic, not its poetic, meaning. The virgin figure can make a wonderful shape. But my apollonian problem is to lighten the values of the colors making up the person next to her. I walk far away from the picture and then turn around very fast to see what colors and values are demaned BY THE PAINTING. Sometimes this works very well. Other times, I'm told nothing, and I leave. But the painting never--or very rarely--steers me wrong.
What really stuns me is when it's been a while since I painted and I'm worse than I was before. It makes the art tedious and dissappointing, because I expect more from myself. But it's also annoying to get better, because all the artwork Iv'e done before no longer looks good to me! Not that I don't want to keep getting better, it's just frustrating.
Oh, and for all you that have tried my homepage location already, it's not up yet, the computer crashed after I bought the domain. I hope to have it up in about a week.
You have put into words the "catch 22" of artistic progression. It is unsettling to look back at work and find it "childish" , "simple", lacking composition or just plain no good, and think to yourself
" I should paint over this so no one will discover it when I am gone"... even if you know enough not to display it!! However, I have yet to paint over anything, masonite is just too cheap.
Question; I have used latex paint to attach canvas to masonite, then gesso over. Does any body know whether this will come apart, the canvas is not tacked??
Art is like a Fart.You get the idea all of a sudden then you exercise it.The results can be foul or wonderfull. fortunately a successfull work of art doesn't have anything to do with a successfull fart.
The Party Farter. an image of someone releasing a silent but deadly and people around reacting, then at the opening, having ate a can of lima beans, the artist ingaged in the same innane activity around his image.The parallel was uncanny and more than 3 demensional..
My recommendation to artists is to amass a strong understanding of the traditions of art; be familliar with the works, techniques, idiosyncrasies of important artists, and works, before you begin to find your own path.
However, the most important thing, scrap all this, before you begin to be your own "artist"; copy old work, or rummage around in their ideas, if you will, to develop technique, but ditch the entire body of tradition before you strike out in the search for your own "muse", your own "voice", your own "being".
As with the search for meaning in life, one must progress via a search for feeling in art!
